Green Giants – Episode 57

Daniel Dus (01:56)

Well, it was very much a specific point in time. I had started in my 20s with startups in software and then real estate. And then, headed into the financial crisis, real estate was not making financial sense in my modeling. And so decided to get an MBA, to kind of formalize my business experience. And while I was in the MBA, a friend of a friend had found out that I did some angel investing and sent me a solar project developer business plan for large utility, which at the time was five to 40 megawatt-sized projects. And I spent a few days really embedded in the Energy Information Administration’s database and NREL’s papers and database at the time, and realizing that we are going to run out of economically reasonable rates of extraction, fossil fuels, oil, and gas. And at the same time, solar was already coming down precipitously. And so, it felt very much like a when, not if. And then you layer on top of that the climate science, which was also emerging at the time. And so, I got bitten and launched my first solar startup out of the Drexel business incubator and program. I proceeded to make zero dollars in solar my first two years, and almost left the industry, but I’m of course so thankful that I stuck with it and am still here, like you said, almost two decades later.

Wes Ashworth (03:27)

Yeah, incredible story, and thank God you stuck with it. Yeah, I can imagine so. I can imagine so. Two years is a decent amount of time. So, you’ve led across different segments of the value chain from finance, engineering, strategy, and execution. What thread connects your work across these roles, and how has your leadership evolved through it all?

Daniel Dus (03:37)

Yeah, it’s a good question, and I spent a long time addressing some of the issues related to managing organizations that are so dependent on incorporating the diverse skill sets across finance, operations, sales, right? We’ve all heard construction folks say that finance folks aren’t worth anything, and finance folks say construction folks are worth what they are, what they truly are. And everyone kind of hates sales. And so, there’s a lot of cultural difference among these functional groups, and that always really fascinated me. So, I actually intentionally spent time in leadership roles in each of those functional areas.


The first one is CFO at Martifer, running a project in corporate finance, and then as COO of Martifer in the United States, running engineering and construction before moving into a chief strategy officer role at Safari, now under Aspen, and leading on business development sales and business planning, and then moving into project development under Dynamic, which is now under Pattern. And so have led on each of these verticals very intentionally because I wanted to learn about all of them and deeply, and so I had the privilege to have some amazing experts reporting to me so I could learn from them. And then, of course, you get exposed to all of the challenges and issues in each of those verticals because they end up on your desk.

And so, it’s that education process that was so valuable. The thread through it all, this is a great question. I’ll never forget when I started leading my first large team, I was 29, 30, and I think all of my direct reports were older than I was.

So, I was trying to read every management textbook I could get my hands on. They built Martifer to be about 80 folks managing around 1,000 subcontract laborers across the United States. My favorite management book is actually Creativity, Inc. by Ed Catmull. And I was running through an airport, grabbed a copy, and didn’t even realize it was a management book because I had a picture of Buzz Lightyear on the cover.

What Ed sort of, he crystallized a lot of what has become my core management mentality, which is, he says that the manager’s number one most important job is to create a psychologically safe space. especially then, that was not a very popular topic of conversation around an MBA, for example.

I’ll never forget the first meetings where I started implementing some of his recommendations. So, for example, going around a conference table and soliciting feedback towards the end of a meeting, because mostly it’s been type A personalities, 20 % of your folks contributing 80 % of the discussion. But when you really create that space and solicit that feedback, then you hear from everybody. And some of those silent voices are actually the best, right? And you definitely want that diversity of ideas and opinions. And so, the thread through it all, of course, is people, right? I mean, it’s people in all of these functions. And of course, all of them have a tremendous amount of value and add value. So, it’s a question of how you marry these different cultures within these different functional groups in order to create organizations that can execute. So yeah, that’s a great question.

Wes Ashworth (07:13)

I love the intentionality, too, behind just your career planning and just spending time in each one of those areas. And I think it’s great wisdom for anybody listening that has aspirations of, you know, getting to that executive level or what have you, the benefit that you do see when you are exposed to that and seeing those different problems, as you say, they pop up on your desk. And I love the thread of just the people at the forefront and some of that leadership philosophy and things like that as well.

And with that, you’ve not only led major companies, but you’ve also helped build the very culture of the solar industry. And one of those powerful examples is Solar Fight Night, which great name the but let’s shift gears and talk about how that event came to life, what it’s meant for the community. You launched Solar Fight Night at a time when solar was still seen as fringe. What was the core frustration or need that inspired you to create a space for upstarts to come together?

Daniel Dus (07:54)

Yeah, the idea was originally Todd Friedman’s and a group, Colin Mitchell, Stephen Pollock, now Zeb Wallace, and Nico Johnson. We’ve been running the event. I’ve been really leading the tactical execution of the event for 18 years now. And the early events were really kind of a Chatham House rules opportunity for folks to discuss how to get any project done. We were struggling to stay alive. Like I mentioned, I made zero dollars in my first two years in solar. So the question is just how do we grow this space? How do we get anything done? I’ll never forget that in one of the early fight nights, I had signed a 100 kilowatt project with the city of Santa Monica, and everyone was like, that’s such a big project, right? How are you gonna actually execute?

And so, at first, we didn’t have any clients. It was how to tell the story, how to sell the product, to get projects on the table. And then we had the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act and the cash grant there. So, we had some attractive economics and some interested clients. Then it became how do we actually build these projects? You couldn’t hire project managers who had done some of these projects before, because they’re the first and largest of.

Then, after we had some projects and some execution experience, and the cash grant was winding down, then you had to figure out how to do a very complex tax equity project financing. So, the genesis of the name Fight Night is that it’s been a struggle. It continues to be a struggle as we have learned very viscerally over the last week. And it will continue to be a struggle. So it is a fight we get everyone together to try to A, celebrate our wins. Sometimes with your head in the trenches, you just forget to take a breath, look up, connect outside of the grind, right? And so that’s definitely still a piece of it. We try to get the folks in the room who are doing new, interesting things.

Still, all the OGs, original founders, and CEOs are there, but we also intentionally bring in new and upcoming talent and folks that are doing innovative things so that we can get the folks in the room who can get more projects done faster, make those connections to help people network and connect. Again, it’s still, at least for now, still people that get all this work done. So, you know, that’s still the heart of Fight Night. For me, it’s a rejuvenation and a re-energizing for the year to come.

You can read about these headlines of the stupid things that humanity does every day, right? We’re all doom-scrolling once in a while. Fight night, you go, and you remember that there are a lot of people out there fighting the good fight every day. And so, I think that’s why it’s such a highlight for folks. It’s often called the Met Gala of industry events, and why, despite ups and downs, we’ve broken attendance records every single year for 18 years in a row, which is pretty phenomenal, given, of course, that we have a solar coaster.

Wes Ashworth (11:24)

Exactly. It’s so incredible. One of my favorite parts of this industry is the community, and just kind of like how small it is. And even that, just getting together, especially when early on, is like really tough, and helping solve problems together. And you’re still doing that now, which I think is just absolutely incredible. But to that success, I mean, that’s over, I think, 14000 attendees, nearly two million raised.

I think you’ve already said it, but if there’s anything else in terms of what makes Solar Fight Night more than just another industry event, and then what’s its emotional or cultural resonance in the sector, and I think you shared a lot there, but anything else to add?

Daniel Dus (12:03)

There’s a level of positivity that I don’t think you’ve, I know I have not found in software and real estate and other industries I’ve been a part of, regardless of how things are going, right? It’s easy to be positive and excited when things are going well, the industry is booming, when things are hard and they’re a struggle, and to still as an industry stay as positive as we see every Fight Night, regardless of the macro challenges and project challenges, and industry challenges. That’s very different from your point about communities. Yeah, Fight Night is certainly a highlight. Tickets will go on sale in June. So, look forward to seeing everyone there. Again, this year, an amazing venue and we have a lot of fun.

Last year, we had about a 12-foot-tall sun god on stilts in a live performance and show. This year, the theme is superheroes because, as far as we’re concerned, if you are still in this industry after the ups and downs, then you deserve superhero status. And so, we’re going to celebrate. We’ll have a lot of live performances. I do hope folks can attend, celebrate, and will be donating to a series of amazing charities. The Honol Foundation, which is doing phenomenal work bringing these technologies to the most underserved communities. Solar Energy Industries, SEI which is doing great training for new talent and advancing the talent of folks in the industry. And also, the Footprint Project, which is deploying solar generators in response to disasters and storms to help ensure that those are not being powered by diesel generators that are creating the problems in the first place. They’re also deploying solar-powered cell networks so that first responders can have cell service while they’re doing their work. Just an amazing organization.

So, every year we raise as much as we possibly can. We pay for the event, and then we donate the rest to an industry 501C3. So I’m really looking forward to the event again this year.

Wes Ashworth (14:15)

Yeah, absolutely incredible. And I’ll be sure to link more of that in the show notes as well, too. So please go and check that out. Incredible work you guys are doing there. The solar community has celebrated some big wins, also lots of challenges, and we face our share of headwinds and continue to. And I think there’s a part of it, you mentioned optimism, you almost have to be an eternal optimist to be in this. And have a true heart for it, which I love.

But to pivot now to some of those challenges you’re seeing on the ground today, especially around tariffs, policy uncertainty, and how those ripple through the economics of project development as well. So, you’re in the trenches with procurement across multiple global markets. What are you seeing right now in terms of how tariffs are materially impacting timelines, costs, and component sourcing? What’s happening out there?

Daniel Dus (15:00)

Yeah, it’s of course an ever-evolving situation, which is the biggest challenge, actually, is not necessarily the tariffs themselves. If you run the math down, if roughly half of a project is equipment, if roughly half of that might be imported and subject to tariffs, and if you assume an average of 35 % tariff on that product, you get to a single digit, you four to seven cents per watt on a typical project of which 30 plus percent would be covered by ITC today. So that’s not great, of course, but it’s digestible by many projects.

The bigger issue is that folks either want to wait to either not pay that tax or they don’t have a choice and they’re moving forward now and absorbing that cost if they can, but the challenge of course is what happens if the tariff regime changes after they purchase, so it really creates a challenging situation. So, the inconsistency that we’ve seen and the lack of predictability, I think that’s more impactful than the actual values, which is unfortunate because, of course, it’s also really self-inflicted, right?

Wes Ashworth (16:19)

Right, exactly. And you mentioned there, I know you’ve shared, and I would agree, the uncertainty around the tariffs is just as corrosive, if not more so, makes it worse than the actual tariffs themselves sometimes. Anything else there to unpack or share in terms of how that uncertainty plays out in financial models, investor confidence, and just decision-making overall?

Daniel Dus (16:37)

Well, it’s further complicated, exacerbated by the current House budget reconciliation package, which would encourage folks to make safe harbor arrangements now. And we are coordinating a lot of procurement activity, primarily modules and transformer equipment for safe harbor purposes. And we see two buckets, actually, we see, I would say, three buckets of clients.

One is folks who are undercapitalized and have few options and are in really just in panic mode, right? And those are the folks that would be extremely impacted if the current proposal continues through the Senate. Another group of well-capitalized developers, financiers is really pushing the safe harbor option aggressively, and so we’re closing module transformer procurement. And then there’s definitely a lot of folks that are still in the wait and see category because they don’t want to take that hit to project economics, or they expect that there’ll be some improvement ahead. But wait and see is also extremely impactful to the industry, right? Dramatic reduction of project volume while we see what happens in the weeks to come. So, none of that is good, right? And you have tariffs layered on top of what is really a potentially urgent need to safe harbor product.

Wes Ashworth (18:08)

Exactly. And as I said, we know those headwinds are not good, never comfortable, never fun, but we’re positive we’re here. It’s still moving forward. It’s still going to happen. Just a matter of timing and seeing how it all shakes out. I guess if you could speak directly to, so what do you wish policymakers or media understood better about how trade policies ripple through the real-world development of clean infrastructure?

Daniel Dus (18:30)

Yeah, the thing that really rattles around in my mind every day right now is the impact that the current congressional package would have not only on clean infrastructure, but on investor sentiment holistically. If investors who are the majority of dollars being invested in clean infrastructure are led by the largest asset managers in the world, and they also invest in fossil fuels, infrastructure, roads, bridges, et cetera. If they cannot rely on the word and the legislation of the US federal government to be reasonable and logical and to have an appropriate runway, then that’s gonna have an enormous chilling effect across the board economically.

So that’s the thing that really confuses me right now about the current package. So, we’re very much hoping that the Senate brings a logical look at and approach to their version of the budget reconciliation process. But that, I think, that macro issue overshadows even the impact on our own industry, right? That’s an impact on America.

Wes Ashworth (19:46)

Yeah, exactly. I’ve felt that and thought that so many times. Gosh, you just wish the logic would prevail, and we just think about it and look at it holistically, and kind of like get our, I don’t know, emotions out of the way or whatever it might be. Yeah, here’s hoping it’ll happen eventually.  So tariffs trade policy clearly adds complexity, but I do want to talk about how you and your team at CIR are tackling these challenges head-on.

So, you’ve built a platform that aims to fundamentally change how renewable projects get delivered. I want to talk about that. So you described CIR as the first commoditized development as a service platform. For those outside the trenches that aren’t familiar, haven’t worked in that model before, haven’t seen that before, what does that actually look like in practice? How is it different from traditional EPC models?

Daniel Dus (20:29)

Yeah, and to be fair, no one has seen this before. We don’t have competitors that are doing this. We are the only ones. And what we mean by commoditization, and the industry’s been talking about standardization since I got into the space 18 years ago, and we’re doing it and have done it for 95 % or so of the unique activities necessary to advance any renewable project, whether it’s batteries, solar, wind, EV charging, we have commoditized those, which means we have fixed low pricing that applies anywhere USA based on project size. So, never before has someone been able to say for the XYZ task, this is the price, and it applies no matter what. It’s a dramatic risk shift from developers and builders, and financers to us as the professional services provider.

And we have done this through an absurd level of software integration, both external tools as well as our internal team, as well as a global team working in a 24-hour workflow. And so, what this means is we have lower cost, more rapid solutions. Our clients often tell us that we are delivering the work product before others have even bid on the cost for the work product.

So you can imagine the efficiency difference that commoditization offers. We’re adding a new team member and a new client on average every other business day. And it’s just been a phenomenal experience to help folks solve a diverse set of challenges that they may have internally. And that may be across the board. It could be engineering; they need faster turnaround time and lower-cost engineering services. It could be legal advice, preparation of EPC contracts, PPAs, land control documents, whatever those may be. It could be permitting support. We are agnostic. Kind of tasks come in at one end of the organization, and the work product comes out at the other end of the process.

So, we’re ridiculously excited to help folks increase their operating efficiency. Because if you staff to your peak need, then project work is and has always been and will always be lumpy, right? Sometimes you’re waiting for tariffs to resolve. You are waiting for financing to close. If you’re carrying to your peak need, then all of a sudden in those valleys, you’re still carrying that expensive SG&A. Then you have to start pricing it into your future projects. And that’s a death spiral. And that’s why we’ve seen many industry participants fail historically. And so, having been able to provide a solution to that has been extremely rewarding to help folks be more efficient and bring that efficiency down into their PPA rates, their EPC pricing, right? And to see them win more and move faster. That’s, it’s incredibly rewarding.

Wes Ashworth (23:32)

Yeah, it is absolutely an incredible model and highly innovative. Why? I guess thinking about that, right? You’re like, it sounds like a no-brainer. Are the only reason people wouldn’t do this because they’re not aware of it? Like, what are some of the questions you get sort of early on in the process?

Daniel Dus (23:40)

Yeah. So, first of all, there’s an inherent question of why this hasn’t always existed, right? And it could not have existed until just the last few years. If you go back five years ago, the software tools were not as good as they are now. And they weren’t able to integrate those software tools through custom data basing API, et cetera. And now we can and managing a complex global team, which was not easily done five years ago, 10 years ago. Now, again, with the software tools, even simple applications like running email and communication through AI tools to ensure that they’re accurate, the English is perfect from a global team, and there’s no miscommunication. Again, these are brand-new tools. So, to be fair, the model could not have existed before now. It’s very much a time and place thing.

On the client side, our close rate from getting on a cold call, first call with a developer or builder, or industry-focused financier to having signed customer agreements is in excess of some months 60%. I think last week our loan sales guy had three or four single-call closes. So, the need is very much there, and so we’re very excited about that. And again, it all goes back to helping teams do more with less, get further faster, which translates into more projects done.

Wes Ashworth (25:15)

Yeah, absolutely incredible stuff there. And I know one of the differentiators we’ve talked through previously was just around some visibility, transparency. I know most firms treat their internal systems really as a black box and don’t share anything. Why did you choose to give your clients full visibility into your internal CRM and task manager workflows? What’s been the most surprising effect of that radical transparency?

Daniel Dus (25:34)

Yeah, it’s not just the workflows, it’s also intellectual property. So, we readily provide our intellectual property to our clients. Our design standards and specifications are all open to all of our clients. So, they may adopt them, or they may give us feedback, and we may incorporate their preferences. But even our IP we give freely to our clients to help them.

We are often helping residential installers move into the commercial market. We’re helping finance folks go further into the development process. We’re helping developers finance their projects. so, providing that IP access to folks who need it when they need it is really valuable. But to your point about ruthless transparency, which is the core of our execution model,.

We give every one of our clients access to our own internal CRM, for example. This is where we’re managing our team’s time down to real time, down to the minute. They’re logging in and out of these unique tasks. Our clients see exactly the status of every task assigned to us, who’s assigned to it, how it’s scheduled and prioritized, and the chatter related to the execution of that task. I’ve never had a vendor give me access to their own internal CRM before.

But we did that because we are managing very complex processes that, to your point about the various functional areas, operations, construction, legal, and lawyers, we have a diverse set of personalities here across the execution chain. We felt very, very strongly early on that providing this ruthless level of transparency was critical. Some surprising outcomes certainly,

It makes our team feel like an immediate organic extension of our customer team, those who really get and understand the value. They can take their team from one team member now becomes 150, right? They need access to an engineer, they have it, a lawyer, they have it, a developer, they’ve got that. And so really helps expand their capabilities and reach.

We’ve had some funny and very interesting learnings because of the efficiency of our process, for example. We’ve run into many circumstances over the years where, within the client’s organization, if there are any issues or breakdowns in communication or deployment, we’ll actually get blamed because the internal team doesn’t want to necessarily take responsibility for a delay. So, then they’ll blame a delay on us. It’s well, actually, you didn’t sign off on the task, or we didn’t hear back on an RFI.

You know, so that was, that was, it was surprising because we became so integrated. We see so deeply into our client organizations that we see breakdowns, and these things happen. But that’s been surprising.

Wes Ashworth (28:22)

No, incredible, like just differentiators and how you’re going about it. And it’s just, you’ve obviously found just a sweet spot and a need. And I know you’ve called CIR the tool I always wished I had, which great place to start for creating a product or solution. But can you share a concrete example or a story moment where you realized that the traditional model was a bit broken and you needed this level of reinvention, essentially?

Daniel Dus (28:39)

Yeah, I mean, very early on, the first organization, Martifer, when we launched, and again, we launched directly into the cash grant, right? This is like a tremendous amount of tailwinds, really abundant financing, and simple financing. And so, we built a large complex organization because, to be fair, we did have to.

We couldn’t hire external parties who had executed; we executed Hertz rental car agencies nationwide, and solar for those. I think it’s still probably the largest on-airport solar portfolio. You couldn’t hire project managers who had been on airports across the country managing solar integration, right? We were doing Jefferson County public schools, 30 schools, simultaneous deployment. I think it was the largest public-school portfolio in the country at the time.

Again, you couldn’t hire an engineer, a project manager, an integrator who had done any of those things. we hired up a large complex internal legal team, an engineering team, an operations team. And then as the cash grant days are winding down and we have more complex project financing, we have lower bandwidth, which became a burden very quickly, right? And you see this consistently across the majority of organizations that have failed in the space, really, if you dial in, this is probably one of the most common reasons why organizations have failed. So, it’s very much was a tool that I wish that we had so that we could keep a tight, consistent focus on core competency and the highest value add for us in our organization, and then have a partner where some of our clients will send us 35 sites for 10 % engineering, due diligence packages, financial modeling, et cetera, and they need it in five business days. And we can do that. And then we won’t hear from them for a month or two. And that’s fine. No, no problem. And then we’ll hear from them again for energy modeling, whatever the task might be. And in the meantime, they haven’t had to increase their SG&A. They have not had to build permanent bandwidth, andd flexible bandwidth was more than adequate. So, we love providing that efficiency, and it’s really the heart of the value add.

Wes Ashworth (31:00)

Yeah, absolutely. And something you touched on earlier is just that the technology has evolved so much and has allowed this to exist, right? It couldn’t have existed five, 10 years ago. But it really stands out how much this innovation is powered by technology. And I’d love to dive a little bit deeper into the tech stack and AI-driven workflows you’re building at CIR and how they’re shaping the future of clean energy execution. So, you’re not just using software, you’re building around it. And what are some of the specific AI-driven tools or workflows your team is deploying that are just changing the speed or scope of what’s possible in project development?

Daniel Dus (31:33)

Absolutely. And they apply all the way from site diligence through construction management. So, for example, a site-specific due diligence report that we run 60 to 80-page diligence report covering everything from topography, soil content, interconnection options, threatened endangered species, all these critical binary issues that can drive either success or cost implications to a project, that used to take us 30 to 35 man hours across a team of lawyers and developers and analysts. And now that same report takes us about four to five, maybe six hours. And the content has increased, not decreased. And the difference is AI automation and our internal tools.

There’s a reason we hired, or our most recent hire was a master’s from Rochester Institute of Technology’s brand-new AI program, their first cohort, because this is really where we’re seeing tremendous gains in efficiency, speed of execution across all elements of the value chain. So, it’s exciting.

Wes Ashworth (32:41)

It is extremely exciting, and it’s cool to see even those positions pop up, and you’re kind of seeing that trend happen. So, it’s incredible. Just even in a short timeframe, in three years, just the technology gains are astonishing. So, it’s cool as you’re using that and incorporating that, and obviously, the results speak for themselves. So, the 24-hour work cycle and global bandwidth you built, how does that concretely compress delivery you’ve said before, and what’s the trade-off, if any, in quality or team coordination? Maybe there isn’t because you’ve said hey, they’re actually producing maybe better results or more results.

Daniel Dus (33:26)

Yeah, that’s right. So, we do work in a 24-hour workflow. We have team members globally in covering all time zones, and it reduces time by half to even more than 60 % or so by, by running these processes that way. And time is value. We control quality through software and through traditional QA, QC processes.

And for us specifically, our quality is often better than our equivalents because we don’t, for example, just put engineers on engineering tasks. We put lawyers on that team. We put developers on that team. So there is are screening for those issues that are actually at the interface of the design engineering with the site, with the project documents, with the commitments to the local AHJs, so that none of those are missed in the engineering process. And that really results in a much better ultimate technical product.

So, by being able to put that diverse team on these workflows and in a 24-hour process, we’re accelerating and improving quality and improving outcomes. And so, the key is to get these projects to true finance ability and constructability and into operation sooner, so that cash is flowing sooner into these projects and portfolios.

Wes Ashworth (34:55)

Yeah, it’s incredible. Looking ahead a little bit, I am curious, just because you are in it so much and using it so much, so where do you see the next major inflection point in how technology will transform renewable project execution? Is it more AI, automation, integration, all of it, or something else entirely?

Daniel Dus (35:13)

Absolutely, no, there’s no question that it’s AI and automation that’s really leading the way. We will have individuals who are running dozens of AI tools that all help accelerate unique workflows, right? That’s what’s happening. And there’s still a ton of unique specialization quality control that has got to happen.

The complexity of energy projects is among the most complex infrastructure projects in the world. The interface of these projects with grids is extremely complex. There are no software AI tools that are fully automating any of these workflows, but they’re certainly cutting down the time necessary to crunch the math, to run engineering scenarios, and run more scenarios faster.

So that’s certainly an enormous part of what’s enabled us to do what we’ve done in commoditizing those workflows. There’s, quite simply put, we would not exist without the myriad of software tools internally and externally that we operate.

Wes Ashworth (36:15)

Yeah, I heard somebody quote one time and put it simply, but AI won’t replace you, but someone who knows how to use AI will replace you. So, it’s very important. And like you got to stay in the driver’s seat and know what you need to do and how you need to direct it, and how you can incorporate all those tools. And there are quality checks and all those kinds of things that keep it in. But the power it gives you, behind that, is just astonishing. So, it’s important that everybody in the industry continues to gain that skill and continue to explore it and use it more.

Thinking a little bit more about the future, there are still many myths and misconceptions about renewables that hold the industry back. I’m glad that there are fewer, but there are still a lot. We’ll tackle a few of those head-on. I know you have some strong takes on what the public and even some insiders get wrong. So, one of your big talking points is debunking the myth that renewables are too intermittent to be reliable. We hear this all of the time. You’ve argued that the grid has always been built to accommodate intermittency. Can you walk us through that logic?

Daniel Dus (36:52)

Arguably, the core backbone of the grid is peaker plants, right, which may operate for hours a year. And so, for renewables to get this bad rap as an intermittent resource is ridiculous. The entire grid infrastructure is built specifically to accommodate and rely upon intermittent resources. Tthat’s extremely frustrating. And, of course, we know it has no basis in reality.

We all know solar is the lowest-cost electron ever produced by humanity. And this myth that it is expensive is really frustrating. I think we face an enormous misinformation environment within the algorithms of social media that is an existential threat, arguably to humanity, but certainly to renewables, where folks are not doing the research to fully understand the issues, and others are actively promoting in order to get eyeballs or clicks or to obtain some objective, are promoting misinformation. So, and what is really painful, of course, is the impact this is gonna have on the rate base as utility rate payers nationally, the Congress’s current budget reconciliation package estimates would increase energy rates, on average, 10 percent, within 12 months, not years, right, months.

And I think that’s conservative. I think that, in fact, what would happen is the industry at large would immediately begin to renegotiate its PPAs, adjust those, still be the low-cost provider, but see an immediate impact on utilities and commercial consumers. So that’s sad, and I hope it doesn’t happen.

Wes Ashworth (39:03)

Yeah, good ones there. You started with a couple, and I agree wholeheartedly with what you shared there. You also hear it’s often assumed that renewable energy is just filled with progressive idealists. The talent landscape reveals a far more diverse group. I talk to these people all the time. Who are the people actually driving the energy transition forward?

Daniel Dus (39:21)

Yeah, my great grandfather was the president of Michigan Tech University, which is a coal mining school. He was a coal mine engineer. He helped design the coal mine exhibit at the Science Museum in Chicago. But if he were alive today, I would bet a dollar that he would be a solar engineer and promoting renewable energy technologies. Things change, technologies change and evolve, and we need to too.

So certainly, as we discussed right out of the gate, it takes a diverse set of people to execute these projects, and that’s across the board. We’ve hired people from all walks of life to help support the execution of these projects, from boots on the site to finance folks in the office and everything in between. So yeah, we don’t succeed in a bubble. That’s for sure. Whereas I certainly am a tree-hugging hippie, we probably hire a minority of those across the organizations, right?

Wes Ashworth (40:19)

Yeah. It’s amazing too. Like you’re seeing in the industry, all political views, all different takes, you know, people that are just pure business people, business-minded, which is great. I mean, I think that’s the next evolution of the industry where it’s not just one segment that’s really promoting it, but it is really becoming a very wide, diverse industry across all different views and what have you, which is, which is great. And so I love seeing that.

So we’ve debunked a few myths. I want to bring us back to a little bit bigger picture. Given the market momentum challenges you’ve seen on the horizon, things are happening now. How are you feeling about just where the industry is heading in the next few years? We’ll fast forward a little, a few years out. Like, what’s your sentiment? What are your thoughts on where it’s headed?

Daniel Dus (41:05)

You know, no one has a crystal ball, but I’ll pull mine out now, my mythical crystal ball. I am really hoping that the Senate puts some logic and reason back into the budget reconciliation process. We see the bring back of a step down and phase out. We see start of construction versus placed in service.

And that provides us with a really nice roadmap to continue to grow the industry and succeed. I think our mid to long-term success is all but guaranteed based on the simple economics of the delivery of solar electrons. Nothing is going to change that in the near midterm. No one is building nuclear reactors or LNG plants or refurbishing coal plants in the years to come at a massive scale in an economically reliable way, at the scale that we need to deploy new energy generation resources. So solar and batteries have got to be a part of the mix. I just hope that we don’t have an inordinate amount of short-term pain in realizing that as an industry, right? That would be a worst-case scenario.

Wes Ashworth (42:10)

Yeah, absolutely. Good sentiments, though overall. And before we wrap, I’d love to zoom out and reflect a little bit. So, you’ve been a builder, founder, and community leader. Between CIR, Solar Fight Night, and your leadership journey, when all’s said and done, what do you hope your impact on this industry will have been?

Daniel Dus (42:25)

I really hope I can look my daughters in the eye and tell them that I was on the right side of history, that I put in the best fight I could for a cleaner, healthier environment that was more democratic in its access to one of our most fundamental resources, energy and clean air and clean water. And so that’s really what I hope for myself and my teams.

I think it’s at the core of our mission holistically to do more, better, faster. So, I think that that drives me every day.

Wes Ashworth (43:02)

Yeah, that’s strong. It’s really, really good. I want to ask this, too. So, what’s one piece of advice you wish someone had given you at the start of your career in renewables that you can offer out right now?

Daniel Dus (43:12)

Phenomenal question. After my entrepreneurship PTSD experience with my first solar platform, I really wish someone had sat me down and said, that was hard, that hurt a lot, but stick with the entrepreneurship. I think working for a series of world-leading organizations, domestic leaders in the space, was phenomenally helpful to my ultimate success. But I am a big fan of and always increasing fan of entrepreneurship. And interestingly, given all these amazing software tools evolving, the opportunity for entrepreneurship is doing nothing but blossoming.

And so, I would say, even if you have struggles as a budding entrepreneur, stick with it. Keep going.

Wes Ashworth (43:58)

Yeah, I love that so much, especially if you have the itch, right? I mean, you just know if you’ve got that entrepreneurial itch, it’s not going to go away. I’ve seen this enough tracked people through their careers. It stays there. So, to follow that, that’s great advice. Final question. Any last words of wisdom, points to add, things you didn’t get to share that you hoped you would get to? I’ll give you the floor, and you can take it from there.

Daniel Dus (44:07)

It’s easy to be pessimistic right now as an industry. And I think that instead, we need to focus on key learnings. Oil and gas, I know, at least in the 2020 election cycle, outspent us by four or five to one in lobbying. And let’s not let that happen ever again. I think we need to stay positive, as hard as it can be sometimes, and double down.

Wes Ashworth (44:46)

Love it. Great words to conclude with, and I completely agree with that. So, I’m gonna double down, stick with it. Needs all of us, and is ready to fight that fight. So, thank you for all that you’re doing for the industry and continue to do. And thank you so much for sharing your insights, your story, and the work you’re doing to help the industry move forward faster. This really has been a great and enjoyable conversation. So, for everyone listening as well, thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, which I am 100 % positive you did.

Please take a moment to subscribe, leave us a review, share it with your network, check out the show notes and those key links as well too. And with that, we will see you soon.