Green Giants – Episode 77

Steffanie Dohn (01:26)

It’s a long story, but I started out wanting to learn more about renewable energy, solar energy in particular. And I have a cousin who was one of the founding creators of ecotourism, actually. And he had a resort in the Virgin Islands, I volunteered, rough job, but I volunteered to go down there and thinking that I would learn a lot about how to build structures utilizing solar composting toilets, all of those things. And this was many years ago, but when I got there, it ended up that we had a lack of communication, I guess, miscommunication, because I didn’t end up learning that I learned some other things in the hospitality industry that were good, but

I was exposed to what solar energy could do. And then I wanted to build on that. I went to school for community planning and utilizing what we called alternative energy. So that can tell you how long ago it was.

However, where I was living at the time in the Northeast, there wasn’t much going on with solar. So, I switched gears to another one of my passions, which is policy, and started working at the state government. Started to learn how that process works. I got recruited to another field of insurance, and I started a whole career doing community engagement, fundraising for community organizations. At some point, like 2016, I decided to look again at renewable energy because it was becoming really popular, the price was coming down and there was a lot going on.

So, I engaged with some colleagues that I knew who were in the industry and found my first company that I worked for, which was a company called Southern Current in Charleston, South Carolina. They were looking for a policy person and I was there and I said I could do it and they put me to work right away, sending me to Columbia, South Carolina, to lobby for the industry and for solar developers in particular.

Wes Ashworth (03:37)

Yeah, what a cool story. It’s cool to just see the combination of all those experiences and even sort of your ventures out of the renewable industry and back in, but all of that really helped prepare you for what you do now. So, it’s always cool to see the stories come together. As you mentioned, before joining McCarthy, you had a big role in South Carolina’s Energy Freedom Act.

How did that fight for policy change just shape your view of what’s really possible in energy transformation?

Steffanie Dohn (04:04)

Well, it was my first experience with policy, renewable energy policy, and it was successful. So, it shaped it in a good way, but it took a while. And timing is everything. So, what was happening in South Carolina at the time was a nuclear power plant that was supposed to come online. There were some issues and it didn’t end up coming online. And a lot of the legislators, policymakers and their staff were asking questions about how did this happened? A lot of them were not there when legislation was passed to allow for the building of that plant. And they just didn’t know the process. They really didn’t.

So, like I said, timing is everything. And we were there to really talk about not only the utility structure, but also what possibilities could be with other forms of energy and a different business model, basically. So, it wasn’t just me; it was a lot of my colleagues and trade associations and a lot of education, a lot of storytelling about the benefits of solar in regard to lowering customers’ energy bills and job creation, and incredible investments to rural communities.

So, really talking about the economic impact of these facilities really helped that very conservative, right-leaning legislature to understand that this is a real economic engine that we should be paying attention to. And it was also helpful that the minds of people who were making these decisions were more open because of what had happened prior.

Wes Ashworth (05:45)

Yeah, yeah, such a great example. I think just the power of communication storytelling. Obviously, pointing to the economic benefits as well, which I’m sure we’ll get a little more into, but just a great example. And of course, right place, right time. Sometimes it’s just like all those things have to align and be there, but what a great experience to go through. And so now you’re leading government affairs at McCarthy, a 164-year-old company.

How does working inside such a legacy-driven, employee-owned company influence how you approach innovation and advocacy?

Steffanie Dohn (06:16)

Well, don’t get to be over 160 years old. A company doesn’t get to be that without being innovative. we are at McCarthy. We’re constantly trying to figure out how to add value to our clients’ facilities through design features, through ways in which we monitor data we collect to help us design a better facility and how they are going to get the most bang for their buck. How are they going to meet the requirements that they have, according to whatever kind of power purchase agreement they have? Or how do we design and build and complete it ahead of schedule so that they can start reaping the benefits of selling that energy sooner?

 So we have a lot of data, a lot of great engineers, people who are much more qualified to speak to this than I am right now, but who can design a facility to really meet and exceed our clients’ expectations.

Wes Ashworth (07:13)

Yeah, I love that perspective and just the innovating inside tradition rather than against it. And I would say not all companies get that and that balance of just heritage and change, I think, is still rare. And you’re right. It’s why you get to that many years of business and you’re still innovating and moving forward.

So just kind of looking at that foundation brings us to one of the most important themes of your work and when we think about solar storage projects, people often focus on the technology or the financing but you’ve argued that what happens in the community is just as important and I agree. So, you’ve said EPCs can play a unique role in just bridging the gap between early project development and operations. Why do you see community engagement as such a critical piece of project success?

Steffanie Dohn (07:29)

Renewable energy, solar storage are still relatively new. Then they’re getting bigger and bigger. So, they attract a lot of attention when they come to town. And people have a lot of questions about it, rightfully so. They want to know if their families are going to be safe. They want to know if there are going to be any kind of financial impacts, beneficial financial impacts to the community. They want to know if people other than the immediate or direct landowners or participants are going to receive any kind of benefit.

So, it’s understood that when something like this comes, people are going to have questions. What I found is that we as an industry could do a much better job at planting seeds earlier on about what a facility is and isn’t. We also have the added narrative around these projects that’s increasingly, and it’s increasingly negative. And so, if we can get in early and we try to work with our clients as early as possible, or as early as it makes sense for us to get involved so that we can talk about the incredible hiring, recruiting, and training programs that we bring to the community.

So, we have countless stories of people that we’ve met because we’ve come to their community and offer opportunities and careers with us that have led to careers in construction for people that wouldn’t have thought about it or wouldn’t have even known it existed had we not come to town. So, the more work we can do as an industry and especially as EPCs, to become a community. We talk about becoming of a community a lot at McCarthy, and that means we are all in. We are there. You’re going to know we’re there in a positive way because we’re going to frequent your restaurants, your hotels, where it makes sense, and purchase or rent equipment from local vendors. We have job fairs and career opportunities that we come to town with.

And all of that is so that we can answer questions first of all, and we can bring information that’s valuable to the community and illustrate why these projects are not a burden, not a nuisance. They actually can be part of the community and part of the fabric of that community and provide benefits long after we leave, certainly.

Wes Ashworth (10:23)

Yeah, I love that. Just kind of the framing of it, and to me, the power of when it is treated really seriously and it’s not just a box to check, but it’s true engagement, getting in there early, boots on the ground, being with the community, educating, answering questions, showing the benefits, telling those stories. I think that’s a powerful recipe that a lot of EPCs could learn from. Clearly, a big reason why McCarthy is so successful in that arena is.

You’ve also mentioned that 15 to 20 percent of U.S. counties now have bans or moratoriums on renewable projects. What’s driving that resistance from your perspective? And what have you learned about it to address it effectively?

Steffanie Dohn (11:05)

Well, it is a growing problem. What we’ve done at McCarthy is develop a strategy, along with our clients, obviously, develop a strategy to engage as early as possible. And what that looks like is attending public meetings, providing subject matter experts on the design and the build of the project so that these communities understand exactly what’s coming.

And we need to do that because of all the moratoriums and ordinances and outright bans that are happening. And I believe it’s because people aren’t taking the time to really talk through what exactly is going to happen. The good and the bad. I mean, we come in, you know we’re there because we have a lot of equipment and we make some noise and we move some dirt. So, you’re going to know we’re there.

But what the community doesn’t always know is what’s the process is? How is it going to end? How is it going to impact my daily life? And because they don’t have that information, a lot of them are trying to get ahead of the game and saying, well, we don’t know what’s coming. We don’t know what to expect. So, let’s just pause so we can figure it out. And that’s coming through in these kinds of moratoriums and bans, it’s not necessarily because they never want to have these projects, it’s just because they don’t understand exactly what that means. If they say yes, if they vote to permit it, what exactly is going to happen next?

So, it becomes on us to really do a better job of educating and trying to get ahead of this move to ban or apply really strict ordinances that make it more difficult to build.

Wes Ashworth (12:52)

Yeah, exactly. Getting back to the power of getting in early, educating, and really partnering with those communities. And I think it’s less about hostility, as you kind of alluded to there, and more about just the fear of the unknown, right? If it’s unknown and it’s uncertain, our tendency as humans is just to push back against it and go, no. So, the importance of having that mentality is great. And I think once people understand how these projects fit into their community story; the temperature really drops and changes. And like you said, sort of addressing, not just all perfect, but being very realistic about what this project is really going to look like and how it’s going to benefit you. Here are some things that may not be perfect, but they’re worth it. And we’ll tell those stories and help you understand that.

So, another concept we talked a little bit about was just these four community stakeholder groups and projects. So, landowners, small businesses, services, local hires, and the NIMBYs that are out there as well. How does McCarthy design its engagement strategy just to reach each one of these groups differently?

Steffanie Dohn (13:49)

Well, we start with the landowners because that’s where, obviously, we’re building. And so, our client is usually, or the developer has usually built those relationships out. So, it’s us just kind of bridging that gap between early development and operation. So, we like to get from our clients any information that will help us be better neighbors while we’re there, so that we can have the landowners understand again, what’s going to happen and how we work and ask them questions about what would make it easier for them while we’re here.

An example, a site in Louisiana, the local landowners, participating landowners and the ones around them were really concerned about early morning noise. They told us that, so we moved back an hour, any kind of construction activities. It was as easy as that. It’s not always that easy, but in this case, it was very easy. Then the business owners, the community members, and people who are not directly benefiting from the project through rentals or leasing are going to benefit from our presence in the community. We have upwards of 200 people who are going to be working on-site at any given time. About 50, and I’m just using very rough numbers estimates, 50 of them or so are our McCarthy members, partners, and they’re going to be staying, they’re going to be renting Airbnb, or they’re going to be renting a hotel, or they’re going to be doing some kind of real engagement in that community.

So, businesses are going to benefit regardless of how long we are there or who it is; they’re just going to benefit from our presence there for upwards of 18 months, sometimes longer. And then local hires are, I think, our secret sauce because we, and other EPCs as well, have a goal of hiring at least 75 % when it’s available to build the project locally. And so, these people become our advocates as well.

So, they are being trained, some of them are already trained, but they’re coming, they’re joining our program, they’re being apprentices, or they’re just being trained in the way we build. And then they turn around and become advocates for the process. And we do, we educate any craft or local hire that comes on board about solar, about storage, about the pros, about the cons, very honest about what’s happening, so that they can, in turn, tell their friends and neighbors what’s happening, what the process is.

These aren’t bad things because I’m working for them and they’re nice people and they build great stuff. So, let’s not have so much animosity. And I find that it works. We’re finding that it works.

We have one partner, we’re partners, it’s an employee-owned company, so when I say partner, we’re partners in the company. And we had a project in Colorado that was asking, the community was asking a lot of questions, and so the client reached out to us early, again, the earlier the better, and we were able to have somebody from that community who was now working for us, he was working on a different project, but he was able to go to that community meeting, as a neighbor, as one of them, one of us, and speak to their concerns in a way that they heard because he knew, he was there and he experienced it.

So, having a cadre of local hires that have benefited from the project and then asking them to speak out about it. And if they’re willing to, it can be a great, great voice for continuing these kinds of projects in that community. And then the NIMBYs, you’re always going to have that and unfortunately, they seem to be the loudest. But if you have those other three groups that are willing and educated and are able to advocate against that, it can make a difference in whether or not a project gets permitted.

They’re going to be people who were never going to change their minds. They’re going to be against whatever. And that’s fine because we’ve done the work to engage those other groups so that it becomes a consensus that we want to move forward with this project.

Wes Ashworth (18:23)

Yeah, it’s a very smart way to think about it and I love the intentionality behind it, just not one message for everyone, but four very different conversations happening in parallel. And then just those local hires that become your advocates, they have such a powerful voice, even the NIMBYs. Coming from that perspective, someone who’s a part of your community in your community versus this external EPC that came in, not that either one’s wrong, it’s just what’s gonna really get across and get to the heart of that. So, I love that.

So, we’ve also talked about you just kind of brainstorming a newer idea and embedding some pro-solar messaging into recruitment ads as a just strategy potentially coming forward. Can you share just your thoughts behind that, and just how workforce hiring itself could double as community education?

Steffanie Dohn (19:10)

So, part of the challenge is getting these messages out to everybody in that community. So, when we are going into an area, we generally produce some digital recruitment ads. I talk about McCarthy, talk about what we do, and talk about the project a little bit. What I’m thinking of or what we’re working on is creating some ads that educate while we recruit, so that we’re geofencing an area or we’re putting out ads in a certain area. Not everybody in that area is going to want to come work for McCarthy. However, there might be people who are seeing these ads who didn’t know that the panels are not toxic, or didn’t know that we’re going to be hiring 75 % of locals, or that we’re going to be investing in many of the community organizations that we support and educate first responders. Just anything that is a concern, we can try to address through this communication tool that we use anyway. So, we’re testing some of that and I believe it will be successful. We just need more time to really test that out.

Wes Ashworth (20:27)

Yeah, it’s a brilliant idea in my opinion. I’d love to see how it plays out and what the impact is. Sort of like turning that whole recruitment process itself into storytelling, and not just filling jobs to that point, sort of building ambassadors for the energy transition. I think it’s great, it’s brilliant.

Thinking about some communities, what’s the hardest community you’ve worked in? You don’t have to name them by name, but by example, what surprised you about the way that trust was ultimately built?

Steffanie Dohn (20:43)

I like to think that they’re all just in transition, not difficult. We haven’t convinced them yet. And it’s interesting because every region of the country has different issues, right? So, in the Midwest, it’s a lot about farmland. It’s a lot about taking up prime farmland or the perception that it is taking up.

So, I’ve found that again, meeting people where they are and just sitting down and then it’s not me, that’s the person, it’s finding someone in that community who can sit down with that group and give them the facts in a way that they trust, right? It’s not like you can’t go to a community and say, no, you’re wrong. That’s not going to work. But going and sitting down and educating and answering questions and giving real proof that what they’re thinking might not be that way. Or it’s dated information. We find that a lot, too.

So, I find that it doesn’t really matter where you are, as long as you identify what that main objection is and sit down with them, and find the right messenger to do so and talk through what some of either the misconceptions or questions are. And again, we’re not going to change everybody’s mind, but I feel like if you make that effort, I’ve seen differences made through just sitting with somebody and answering their questions in a way that’s respectful and not talking down to or know you’re wrong kind of thing.

Wes Ashworth (22:29)

Yeah, it’s powerful, right? It shows that trust isn’t just a press release. It really is time spent, boots on the ground, you being there, being intentional. And those kinds of experiences change really how the whole industry learns to show up. And the more we do it, the more stories we have to share, which you mentioned that and how important that is.

So, we’ve looked a little bit at the community perspective, and I think that naturally connects to a bigger cultural issue is how we even talk about energy in this country. I’ve always been fascinated by this topic, and you’ve been outspoken about just the need to maybe shift the conversation a bit. And we’re starting to hear this more and more. So, you’ve argued that maybe we should stop talking about renewable energy, green energy, all these kinds of things and just talk about energy. What do you mean by that?

Steffanie Dohn (23:09)

Well, we need to figure out a way to get all of these electrons on the grid. The load growth is not slowing, it’s increasing. And the technologies are developing and there are these wonderful new technologies that if we are just focused on one type of energy, we’re not going to get the benefit from. And people are going to pay for it, quite literally.

So, adopting and all of the above, adopting just, we just need an energy kind of mindset that allows for a variety of technologies and resources to be integrated with the grid in a way that nobody knows about, nobody is concerned about. We just want to turn on the switch, right? When we turn on the switch, we just want our things to work. People really don’t care where it comes from. I’ve come to realize, they just want it to happen.

So, if we’re going to spend a lot of time and effort and resources prioritizing, and this is happening across the political spectrum. So, I’m not talking about it in one particular way. I’m saying across it, if we’re focused on one particular type of energy or demonize another type, nobody is going to benefit from it. Nobody is benefiting. We’re in fact suffering because we are going to see increased costs. We are going to see an increase in unreliability. And we are going to see businesses and these data centers and other resources or other opportunities for growth diminish.

So, it just makes economic sense for us to encourage any kind of technology that can be added to the grid in a way that makes sense. Now, I’m oversimplifying it, but I feel like it’s simple. I feel like it’s a simple concept. The way it happens is a little more complicated, but we’re smart people. We can figure it out.

Wes Ashworth (25:05)

Yeah, no, exactly. And I agree, once you start taking away some of those labels and just treating it as energy, it is then that people are thinking about the power that keeps their homes, their schools, their hospitals running, like the things that are really important. Although there are a lot of us who really truly believe in climate change and the impact, at the end of the day, that’s not getting it done, not getting the progress that we need. And so, we start talking about in terms of the energy, the resilience, the reliability, the speed, the dependency, and the cost. That really is where you get large buy-in across the board.

So, I’m trying to do a better job at that myself, but the US has turned energy into this highly politicized issue. It’s one of the topics I probably talk about the most and one that just for the life of me will always just be perplexing as to why we’ve made this such a political issue. What’s at stake if we fail to reframe the conversation and keep this just a highly politicized, polarizing kind of issue, just for no other reason than to do it?

Steffanie Dohn (25:49)

Well, I think we’re seeing some of the consequences and some of the canceled projects that have happened over the last few months. People’s livelihoods were stopped, and were severely impacted by the cancellation of projects that were in the process of being built. I think we will continue to see lost opportunities and build out a skilled workforce. As we’ve been talking about, McCarthy and other EPCs on the ground are building a pipeline of skilled workers in trades where we’re not seeing so much in other places. So, if we restrict growth by energy type, we’re just going to see more missed opportunities in that way.

You were saying we’re not going to be able to run our basic needs. We’re not going to be able to run hospitals efficiently or effectively. We might run at risk of having blackouts or having to reduce power. And that’s all expensive. It can also be life-threatening. I mean, very, really, life-threatening we’ve seen over the past few years, where outages have cost a great deal of money and unfortunately led to some fatalities. I’d like to end.

Wes Ashworth (27:25)

Yeah, I mean, that’s the reality of it, right? And how high the stakes are. And I think that they’re really the importance of being able to make pragmatic decisions about energy. Let me ask you this. People talk a lot about policymakers, right? But how do you think business leaders can help depoliticize energy?

Steffanie Dohn (27:42)

To get involved and engaged in the advocacy work that we do. A lot of business owners want to pretend like they don’t need to be engaged. And long gone are the times when a business owner can plan based on whatever political party is in office. It used to be years ago; if this party were in power, this would have happened. That’s not the case anymore. It’s very convoluted and it’s all happening so fast that business leaders really need to pay attention. They can’t just be like, I don’t want to deal with that or I have somebody to deal with that.

It’s really important to engage because policymakers are going to listen to them. They’re going to listen to the owners of industry, the owners of businesses, regardless of what business, they’re going to listen to them because at the end of the day, they want a strong, robust, business-friendly environment. I really believe they do. And they can’t do that if they don’t have input from the people who are making it possible or the people who can make it possible.

Wes Ashworth (28:52)

Yeah, no great points there. And I agree, like businesses just have credibility in places where government doesn’t. And a lot of policymakers want to hear from these real businesses that are really driving the economy. And it’s often the private sector that can normalize the conversation. So, you’ve also compared the energy transition to the evolution from landlines to cell phones. I’ve been looking at a lot of these parallels lately, and I love how can analogies like that to help the public better understand what’s really happening.

Steffanie Dohn (29:17)

I think it helps to talk about change. I mean, you think about the landline, was it for a very long time, right? And then all of a sudden, we have this new technology, which is really not very old. Maybe, I don’t know, 20 years, maybe. But it took me a little longer.

And it didn’t get adopted right away. mean, I’m embarrassed to say that I had a landline probably about five years ago, just in case, right? Like, just in case. I didn’t need it. I never used it, but it was there if I needed it. And I think that’s the way people react to change: is this really something I want to dive into, especially when it’s been institutionalized for so long?

So, I look at different or emerging technologies, solar is not emerging, we’re here, but new technologies that people may not be totally bought into are kind of the same way. We have to give people time and a security blanket, almost to help them change or transition to something new. It’s just human nature; we don’t like change.

Wes Ashworth (30:28)

Yeah, agreed, agreed. I love the analogy overall. And to me, like, it does paint a picture, if you can imagine this transition from landlines to cell phones and people being like, well, I vote this way. So, I oppose cell phones, and I will never have a cell phone. I’ll never support cell phones. And I’m going to try to ban cell phone use because I vote in this direction. How silly that sounds. But if we start framing it that way in these analogies, I think people will understand that it is kind of silly.

Maybe I should give this some thought or think about it. Cause as we move forward and innovate, although change is tough, change is hard. There’s always that, but just be open to it, be curious and look into it.

Steffanie Dohn (31:07)

Change is uncomfortable for people, especially when they’re rooted in something that’s provided them with what they’ve needed for so long. And so, it’s like, I’ve always voted for this, or I’ve always used this, I’ve always voted for this, or this way. Something new comes along. I’m not going to change the way I’ve done it before because I’ve always done it this way and it’s worked for me.

Wes Ashworth (31:29)

We kind of looked at this. policy, community engagement are the framework. The real human story is in the workforce. Obviously, I’m very passionate about the workforce. I love talking about it. So, you’ve said that careers, not just jobs, are at the heart of McCarthy’s impact. I want to spend a little time there.

So, McCarthy has this long history of apprenticeships. With that, how has the IRA just amplified your ability to scale that work?

Steffanie Dohn (31:51)

Well, with the labor standards, the workforce requirements in the IRA, we were able to codify our apprenticeship program. Now, we’ve said McCarthy is 160 years old. We’ve definitely trained a worker here or there over that time, and we will continue to do so. The way that it was codified because of the IRA was significant to us.

We were able to expand our program to include three disciplines: operators and engineers, electricians, and laborers. And because of the need to have the proportions correctly so that our client, the taxpayer, could receive that credit, we ramped up our recruiting process and we were able to not only encourage apprenticeship at McCarthy, but also with our subs because they were required to meet the proportions as well.

So, it really helped solidify an apprenticeship mindset, not only in McCarthy but also trickled down to a variety of our subcontractors and their subcontractors. So, we’re really creating that pipeline of the skilled workforce that we need because, by the way, we have a shortage of skilled workers in the trades.

The IRA just kind of holding everybody accountable, I guess, really helped us understand and see the potential that we have in creating that pipeline. And really, the obligation, I believe, to do so. We are building these facilities, we want to grow, and we cannot do it without people.

Wes Ashworth (33:35)

We talked about this concept of just creating career pathways in rural communities that have never had them before. And I think that’s a really powerful thing. can you tell us a bit about that? What does that mean, and how does that work in just practice?

Steffanie Dohn (33:49)

We have some really great stories of changing lives, quite literally, and a couple of favorites. One is a person in Arizona who was part of it; we had about 23 apprentices on this project. And they all did really well and are in the program and have continued on to other projects. But one in particular did so well, he is now a logistical foreman.

We also have several people from Texas and Arizona, in particular, I’m thinking about, who did not have construction on their bingo cards. However, because we were there and they were recruited, they got into the apprenticeship program and one of them has now worked on five renewable energy projects and two other projects of different business units within McCarthy.

That’s the other thing, too. We’re not only growing the energy workforce, but companies like ours that have different types of business units and build for different industries, we’re exposing these people to 18 other markets where they can gain skills and find employment. And the same similar story in Arizona, where someone saw that we were recruiting, decided to take a chance, had no background and said, I work hard and I show up and I work hard and that’s really all we needed. And they’ve taken off and will continue to move on to other projects.

So, it’s one of my favorite things to talk about. I love it. could go on forever about it. It’s just having somebody who has absolutely no idea that this is for them. Seeing that light go on and understanding the career path in front of them and then seizing it and taking it and running with it is really remarkable.

Wes Ashworth (35:41)

Yeah, it’s a beautiful vision and remarkable just seeing the impact there and myself. I grew up in a really small town and you see if there’s a major employer there or someone there creating jobs and upskilling folks, just the impact on the community. You also see the opposite. We had a major employer leave the area, and just how detrimental that was, that really impacted lives for negatively and the whole town as a whole. just, it’s the power of this, right? And we have the ability to, like you said, really transform what economic development looks like in rural America and really support it through these projects.

So, it’s a beautiful thing. And then again, too, back to that. like then these local hires really do become messengers inside the community and change the narrative around solar and renewable energy. And we talked about the power there.

So, kind of like looking at all that, how do you personally measure success in workforce development? Is it the jobs created? Is it a career launch? Careers launched? Is it something else?

Steffanie Dohn (36:42)

Yes, all of the above. And one of the things, just to say a little bit about the career development, workforce development, one of my pet peeves, and I hear it a lot, is that when we come to the community, we only get some short-term or temporary jobs. And that really irritates me because that’s not true. The people, if they want to have the opportunity to join our apprenticeship program, or if they’re already skilled, just join our program and then they can become travelers with us, so they can travel around with us to build more projects, or if they don’t want to travel with all of the activity in these regions where we’re building, there’s going to be another McCarthy that comes to build and there they are, they have the skills and they’re able to go there.

So, the short-term job excuse is not real. It’s not real. If somebody chooses to have a construction, regardless of McCarthy or another company, the opportunity is there for them.

Wes Ashworth (37:45)

Yeah, no, I’m glad you addressed that. I think that’s an important one. And you’re right, I think it does create this long-term ability for that person to have more job opportunities where they’re locally and opportunities. There are people, of course, who want to explore and try out, move to different areas. And then you have an even more valuable skill set that you could go elsewhere if you wanted to, but also locally to stay there, and just that long-term look.

Steffanie Dohn (37:53)

We measure our success by the amount of people who advance. So, I think it was about a year ago now, we had our first graduates from our more codified apprenticeship program in operating and engineering, and we had six graduates. We had a ceremony for them in Louisiana, because that’s where they were working at the time.

And so, we’re really proud of that, and we’re proud of retention. Our apprenticeship program has a 60 % retention rate and that I hear is pretty good. So again, having that percentage or having that kind of benchmark, but also in the stories, is how we measure success because, yeah, you could have an apprentice, but how is their quality of life? Well, it’s, it’s very good, you know, because they want to stay.

Wes Ashworth (38:59)

I love that focus on quality of life and too, just as a way to measure the success. So, throughout this, we talked a little bit about community, policy, and workforce as these three interconnected pieces of the energy transition. As we get closer to the time, we’ll pull back a little bit, look at the bigger picture. So, you’ve described the scarcity mindset as maybe a major obstacle. How do we move toward a yes and mindset in energy and society, just more broadly?

Steffanie Dohn (39:24)

I’ll stick to energy. just because society is too big. But if we start with energy, maybe it’ll grow. But I think that there’s this mindset, and we’re talking a little bit about just with the conversation about just energy, there’s an idea that if you add a resource onto a grid, you have to take another one away. So, if you’re adding something, you’re taking from something. And that’s the scarcity mindset that’s driving the energy world today. And having that change so that we look at all of the above, and we understand where a resource ought to go, where it fits into the puzzle, then we’re just growing more and more resources and we have more places to put them because we’re open to everything.

All resources don’t make sense all the time. However, if the difference is that you’re open to them, you’re not eliminating them or pushing them away; you’re saying, okay, let’s take it and figure out how to make it work within the bigger system.

Wes Ashworth (40:29)

Yeah, no, exactly. I agree, so that “yes and” framing is to me a more honest reflection of what’s actually possible and I do think we’re trending that way and it’s exciting to see it happen more and more and progress coming along with it.

So, when you look at the next decade, what gives you the most hope about America’s energy future or the globe’s energy future? What’s on the horizon for you?

Steffanie Dohn (40:51)

Well, I think we’ve just begun with adapting new technology. What’s happening with SMRs, although I think it’s still not quite ready for prime time, I could be wrong, but I’m not an expert in that. But geothermal, SMRs, hydrogen, all of the new technologies that are there just waiting to be tested, waiting to be innovated.

There’s again, there’s so much need for this as our load growth continues and continues as we need more reliable resources, more resilient resources to face things that I believe we haven’t even really faced yet. We need this.

So, let’s innovate and figure out how to make it work. And that makes me excited. I do have an entrepreneurial spirit and want to figure out how to make it work and how to be successful and how to incorporate all that’s available to us in a way that makes sense for the most amount of people.

Wes Ashworth (41:52)

It’s a refreshing answer. So often we focus on the obstacles, but you pointed to just at the momentum, the creativity, the innovation already underway. I agree. It’s such an exciting time to be a part of it and seeing all these technologies just evolve and adapt and how quickly it’s progressing and happening. It’s fun. Again, very, very hopeful as well. I’ll ask you this.

So, you’ve also built coalitions, you’ve lobbied legislatures, and engaged communities. What kind of legacy do you hope to leave behind in the energy space?

Steffanie Dohn (42:20)

Well, one that is can be marked by one that’s abundant and more jobs, more technology, more growth. I’d like for somebody to look back and say that she really did a great job in ensuring communities had the resources they needed in a fair and equitable way.

Wes Ashworth (42:45)
That’s a great, great legacy to leave behind. No doubt you are just a real one of impact and trust and making a real difference. Final question or close to final.
So, for listeners who may feel powerless in the face of big energy debates, what’s one concrete way from your perspective that they can make a difference?

Steffanie Dohn (43:03)

Talk to your colleagues. One thing that I’ve really benefited from being a part of this industry is the amazing network of colleagues I have and the variety of colleagues I have. if I’m struggling with something, policy or an action in one community and I call a friend who’s working in another community and they have a better story or they have a positive story, this is what we’re doing and it’s working.

Just really community, I mean, not just a specific community, community in general right now is really important and we cannot be isolated. We need to be talking to one another. And that’s what gets me through a lot of times, is to just know that I have people and resources I can talk to, ask for help with. And if I’m struggling with seeing the solution, nine times out of 10, talking through it with somebody else helps me, helps me get there.

Wes Ashworth (43:57)

I love that so much and it kind of brings the conversation right back to agency. Everyone listening can plug into something tangible today. I think we’re hardwired as humans to thrive in community and need that as well. So, I love that thought. Final question. Any other kind of parting words of wisdom, things you didn’t get to share, anything else you want to leave the audience with?

Steffanie Dohn (44:16)

I want people to realize how much this industry has grown and the benefits that we’ve brought to the community, to the world, really. And I know at times it can feel like the solar coaster is the solar coaster. I think that we are experiencing higher growth and shorter amounts of time than we have over the last 10 years. I’ve seen it. I’ve seen how we have grown from this nascent little thing, they can’t do this, to a real powerhouse that can provide solutions appropriately to people and to communities. And so, I just take a moment to think about where we were, where we are. And it might feel like we’re kind of on the downturn now, but I don’t believe that’s going to last very long.

Wes Ashworth (45:04)

No, agreed. I love that. It’s just a great way to kind of wrap it up and leave on that thought. So, Steffanie, thank you for bringing such clarity, passion, and perspective to this conversation. You’ve reminded us that energy transition isn’t just about technology. It’s about people, communities, and the stories we choose to tell.

To our listeners, as always, thank you for joining us on Green Giants. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a rating, and share it with a friend or colleague who cares about the future of energy. With that, we will see you soon.