Green Giants – Episode 78

Wes Ashworth (02:34)

Yeah, it mirrors kind of what I’ve heard a lot of and kind of talking through those feelings and reactions, kind of like it’s there, but the certainty at least is some sort of positive in a way that the uncertainty almost is worse sometimes than the true headwinds of it. So, it makes sense. Part of that, too, you’ve also said the most dangerous part of the bill is the clawback of already appropriated funds. Why is that so destabilizing and how unusual is that in your experience?

Kimberlee Centera (03:03)

Well, I’ve been around the renewable space for a long time and, over 30 years. And I’ve certainly seen a lot of peaks and valleys. I’ve seen a lot of challenges. I think a little bit of what has made this so unique and has been part of this idea that it used to be in the industry. You could rely upon the government, right? If you knew you had government-backed funds, if you knew about permitting or some of these things. I mean, that was really the backbone of a lot of our financing, our whole, everything that we do at TerraPro is about trying to de-risk projects and help them get set up for financing.

So, knowing that those kinds of things are so important. And I think we maybe weren’t, I don’t know that a lot of people necessarily see some of the clawback on some of the benefits that we had gotten a few years ago. But I think there was definitely a surprise around the extent of some of the funds that had been allocated for projects. And a lot of these projects were very far along. I mean, they were past permitting. And I think really, as you’re going through financing, the goal is to be able to check all the boxes. And when you get all the boxes checked and you’re able to secure that financing without those guarantees and everything, then there’s a belief that we should be able to rely on that to move forward.

And I think by the government taking this really unprecedented position of, we’re now going to redirect funds, or we’re going to stop them. we saw some really dramatic cases where projects were mid-construction and that kind of thing. So, those types of impingements on our industry are hard to manage around. Those are hard to predict.

Wes Ashworth (05:08)

Yeah, it’s interesting to just how resilient the industry is. It’s almost as you said, there was some expectation that clawbacks are going what have you, but to the level and the extent, as you said, and kind of stopping projects that are mid-construction. Yeah, unprecedented and certainly surprising. I think the other piece of it is kind of coming out. I’ve talked about it a lot and had some other folks share. Is that just kind of a narrative? I don’t think it’s all bad, but the narrative forming is that renewables should be able to stand on their own now.

So, without federal support altogether, from your vantage point, guess, tell us your thoughts around that. Is it disconnected from reality? What’s the real story from your perspective?

Kimberlee Centera (05:45)

Well, I think there’s always that innovative part of our industry, right? And I think even though a lot of our tax credits and everything have been intermittent, and we’ve certainly had these periods of time where there was going to be an, it was going to be expiring, but it was always there, right? And I think it provided some kind of certainty and just something that we could rely on. But I think now, as we’re going forward, it does make it more difficult.

As we’ve watched our clients, it feels like there are a couple of different camps. We have a certain group that has really retracted. They’re just, this is too much. We’ve actually had some clients who are like, we’re just going to pause everything because we just don’t even know how to respond to this.

And I think you’ve got other folks who’ve been around in the industry a little longer that are a little more comfortable, and we had a kind of the other group that I may be called the more bullish ones that were, Kim, we’re going to figure out a way through this, right? We kind of know what we’re dealing with here. So, I think even, certainly, the tax credits are helpful. I’m not a tax expert, but I think they do really provide some benefits that can help with some of these projects. And I think there’s also that idea that these benefits kind of filter all the way down into the communities, right?

So, I don’t know that we really know exactly what renewables look like with no tax credits at all. But I know there are a lot of people who are working, and I’ve talked to some of the really large players in the industry who feel like this is something we can manage around. So, we’ll see what happens. I think it’s yet to be determined.

Wes Ashworth (07:43)

Yeah, no, I would agree. And some of those conversations you are having. if you’re meeting and talking with developers or others who are just counting on those programs to get across the finish line, like what do those conversations look like, and what kinds of conversations are you having?

Kimberlee Centera (07:57)

Well, I think what we’re seeing is that, based upon what we know so far, if there’s a way to procure, especially large ticket items, even without the guidance from the IRS, which would really help a lot. Because even though we have some idea, it’s still very gray; it’s not black and white. So, there’s still that idea that we’ve got to kind of figure it out. But in talking to the folks who are helping on the procurement side, there’s definitely a large group of folks that are acquiring, they’re procuring what they can in order to be able to secure that, kind of startup construction as we believe it’s gonna be now.

And so, I think that’s the awesome thing about our industry is we’re not gonna stop, we’re gonna figure it out. How can we make this work? And that’s what I really loved about those conversations, definitely some gotchas to watch out for, what’s the involvement with China and all of that. But then there’s a large group that is securing large ticket items, transformers, what have you, to be able to protect that start of construction as we know it right now.

Wes Ashworth (09:07)

Yeah, I love it too. And that’s similar to a lot of the conversations I’ve had. It’s just that resilience that sticks to it. We’re going to figure it out. We’re going to find a way. We’ll innovate. We’ll do what we have to do. It is cool to see that. And does, I think, underscore just how dynamic this moment is. Everybody’s adjusting plans and timelines in real time and trying to figure it out, sometimes with not extreme clarity as well. But a testament to me in this industry and the leaders that are in this industry that are still finding a way, still pushing ahead.

At the end of the day, it’s fascinating how a single piece of legislation can just ripple through boardrooms to small-town budgets. And I want to talk a bit about what that means for real people. you touched on that earlier, and just the community impact. So, if those communities counting on renewable projects to fund schools, fund fire stations or infrastructure, what happens when those projects or if those projects disappear?

Kimberlee Centera (10:01)

That’s always been, I think, really a strong piece for me is the connection to the communities because, and I may have talked about this before, the opportunity to really sit down with people and understand at a grassroots level, what this really means for some of these local communities. And we know a lot of our projects are in very rural areas. And having spent a good amount of time talking to farmers and ranchers and other people on the ground as far as those challenges, if we’re doing renewable projects right, then we should be impacting the communities in a positive way. That to me should be one of the cornerstones of our industry.

And so, then if you suddenly remove that, then absolutely there should be an impact. And I don’t know as an industry whether we have done a good enough job connecting at a real human level what it means for these power plants to go away. And I was just at a couple of conferences; I was at RE plus and the RISE conference as well, and they had a presenter talk about the importance of power and how one in three families don’t have access, true access to power. It’s a choice. They have to make a choice between am I going to buy food this week or are we going to turn off all the lights?

So, this is a real thing. And I think the challenge, one of the challenges for us going forward is how we start to let people know that this is really about people. It’s about communities. And I think there’s some of it when you go to the conferences, but it feels even when I talk to people back here in San Diego, and I tell them what I do, I still don’t feel like it’s kind of like, yeah, you work on those little wind turbines with a little like over in Denmark, right? Whatever.

And, but we’ve been doing this a long time and that narrative feels to me should have changed. There should be a way for people to understand that what we’re doing at its most basic level, it is building power plants. I mean, one of the statistics I heard is that 91 % of the power plants that have come online in 2025 were renewables. So, that’s the difference that we’re making. How do we really get that messaging out there?

Wes Ashworth (12:35)

Yeah, it’s a powerful reminder that these projects, as you said, just often touch so much more than energy. And that’s certainly a big piece of it, but shaping local economies and futures and individuals’ lives. And I agree. You talk about change. Storytelling is prime number one, how you really help change. And so those stories really drive how just intertwined it is that the energy and community development have become and agreed. Hopefully, that’s a pledge to let’s all talk about that more, tell that story more. You that’s how you can create real change for sure. And I think too, just as you mentioned, the rural part of it and agreed. those cuts are landing in rural communities, mid-sized towns that aren’t often seen as clean energy hubs. And there’s a big impact on those small communities as well. What are some of those real-world stories you’re hearing now?

Kimberlee Centera (13:27)

Well, just obviously, there’s disappointment. And I think a lot of our clients are, they’re taking a look very closely at their constituents. And, I’ve always felt that one of the really important parts of renewables is our, like I said, building of community, building of those constituents. So, I think we’re seeing a little bit of a shift, and this is kind of interesting. I recently attended an event where the Sierra Club was together with the women in clean tech. And I thought that was interesting.

So, I think what we’re seeing here in terms of just local people is I think there’s going to be new alliances. I think it’s going to open up people’s eyes to the importance of how needed this is, and you’re hearing stories about farmers and all these different things, it’s hard to know. But it really breaks my heart that, having worked with people so closely and knowing when you talk to people and they sign an option agreement, and its years before you start construction. And then you go to them and you say, okay, it’s finally gonna happen. We’re gonna exercise these leases. We’re gonna start construction, this dream that we had years ago, that when we talked to you about, is going to become a reality. And your community comes, they become part of that, and they want to see it happen. They’re invested.

And so, I think there’s a lot of disappointment and it’s hard to explain that to people. I don’t know that they truly understand, but it’s, it’s, it’s a tough one.

Wes Ashworth (15:06)

Yeah, I mean, as far as understanding the why, I don’t know that I truly understand it, and you kind of look at it that it doesn’t make sense. The impact that you can have on a local community is positively impacting lives and giving them jobs, and again, all that anticipation leading up to it. but it does help really bring the issue to life. And I think bringing home that it really does have this big local impact in those communities. So, yeah, more to come as we get into it, but just a moment there of just going, yeah, it really is a huge impact and really impacting people that need it the most and really are benefiting from it.
Another point you’ve raised I want to get to is just that ratepayers don’t bear the risk in renewables like they do in traditional energy. I guess in this moment, why is that distinction important?

Kimberlee Centera (15:33)

Well, I think when you talk to the utilities or what have you, we know it takes a long time to build a project in that public sector, right? And like I said, 91 % of the power that’s come online this year was through renewables. It was through our projects. So, all of that process is going to happen with the rate payers, with the utilities. It’s just a whole different process. But I think in the private sector, where all that due diligence is done, it’s reviewed, from that standpoint, these entities are taking on that risk, and, we’re going to need all this power, in fact, when at RE +, they were talking about nuclear and they were talking about a lot of different things, we’re talking about agroforestry and, I’ve learned a whole new vocabulary recently, but so I think a lot of it is, that idea that, we really need to be looking at all that. So, we’ll have to see what happens.

Wes Ashworth (17:01)

You mentioned earlier, just some of the just uncertainty and trying to figure out, are you seeing any, I guess, increase in project cancellations or even delays just purely due to like new compliance burdens or confusion about eligibility?

Kimberlee Centera (17:14)

Yeah, we’ve seen it was really interesting because last year, what I anticipated was that there would be a lot of mergers and acquisitions, right? There’d be a lot of projects that would be acquired. What I didn’t see was the number of developers that would be acquired. I would say probably 20 % of our clients are going through some kind of acquisition right now.

And I think a lot of that is just the environment that we’re in and the groups that are able. I think there are some opportunities out there, there really are. And we have clients that are taking advantage of it. But certainly, we’re seeing a lot of that happening. So, I think we’ve had these times come up in our industry. And I think we’re in one now. And someone said the other day, this is a time to step up and really be brave, right? And that really resonated with me because I thought, that’s important. That’s right. this is the time to really step in to create something new and different. And I think the industry is going to look a lot different next year. I think you’re going to see some differences with some of the big players and it’s kind of interesting to see that happen.

Wes Ashworth (18:27)

Yeah, definitely. And that’s a powerful statement. Time to step up and be brave. And I think you have always connected policy to just the human impact, especially if we talked about these rural communities. And I want to look a little bit how the smartest players are just adapting to this new terrain. So those who are stepping up and being brave.

What are the smartest developers doing right now to adapt? Are there new strategies, structures, or partnerships you’re seeing emerge? You mentioned the developers; some of that is happening. But what else are you seeing?

Kimberlee Centera (18:54)

I think, yes, we’re definitely seeing new allies. I heard someone else say something that I thought was really interesting in this environment that we’re in. Some of the players that we might have originally thought were against us are now going to become our unlikely allies. I think we need to be looking for that. I think we need to seek that out because I think that’s one of the things that is going to come out of this, besides all the different mergers and different developers that are being acquired.

The other thing I think is, over the summer, a lot of our developers said, okay, let’s sit down, let’s be smart, let’s figure out what we can monetize, what’s gonna work. They reached out to us to say, how can you help us prioritize what can realistically happen in the next 24 months versus what do we shift out beyond that date?

The other thing that I thought was very interesting is that while you had a large group of developers that were really focused on the next, let’s call it 24 months, what can we monetize? I saw another group emerging, and they’re actually looking at post-2027. They’re putting together plans and ideas for how they can think of something in a new way. So, as difficult as times can be, and throughout the course of my life, some of the most difficult times have than later on than the times of greatest growth. I mean, that’s why I ended up with my business.

So, I think we’re going to see that here. I think if you’re paying attention, there are a lot of things that are shifting, but there are some groups that are purposefully looking at post two or three years. How can we monetize that? How can we play in that space, and what will that look like? And I’m excited that we get a chance to strategize with those folks and help them think about how they can structure things. So, I think we’re seeing a lot of that too. We’re seeing not only near-term, but also longer-term.

Wes Ashworth (21:13)

Yeah, it’s encouraging to hear. Creative solutions are emerging. Even in that period of uncertainty, as you said, and I would agree, that’s where growth really happens. That’s where innovation is really encouraged and starts to happen. Sometimes out of necessity, but as uncomfortable sometimes it is in the moment, you look back and go, wow, like look what we accomplished in that timeframe. So again, hopefully excited to kind of see what all, how that evolves and how that happens. And no doubt this industry will figure it out as we go.

Let me ask you this. So, any state or regional efforts that give you hope, where local governments are either stepping up to support renewables, maybe where the federal government has pulled back?

Kimberlee Centera (21:55)

I had the opportunity, like I said, to sit for Climate Week here in San Diego and be involved in that Sierra Club Women in Clean Tech meeting. I think this is California, right? And so there might have been a time when you would never see those two entities together in a room, right? Lobbying together and speaking to the audience to educate them around here’s what’s happening, here’s what we need to do differently. What I learned, which I thought was really exciting, is that there are climate action plans, not only throughout California, but across the United States.

So, I think right now, since our reliance on government, Congress, what have you, has to shift. I think not that everyone is going to be working necessarily at the city level, but just the idea that there are people talking about it, we need to make it real. And I think that enthusiasm and optimism are also going to feed up into the states because there’s a powerful voice there. When you see these groups willing to get together who weren’t always allies, but they’re willing to come together and try to create something.

So, I think that’s a lot of what we’re going to see is things will shift to the state levels and to some of your other local levels. And so, it’s going to be kind of a new world order in a sense, because maybe where they were used to looking to the government for that direction, and, okay, what do we do now? It’s going to provide a challenge and an opportunity for these states. And I think we’re even starting to see some of that. We’re starting to see even in a lot of our different states, folks coming, red, blue, or however you want to characterize it, people are starting to come forward and talk about that more. They’re realizing that there is power at the state level. So, I think we’ll see some of that.

Wes Ashworth (23:50)

Yeah, it’s good to hear about that state-level leadership and I think those unlikely allies are starting to come together as well. Like that’s encouraging. And sometimes true innovation does start kind of locally and builds outward, and starting to see that trend already, which is cool. From your vantage point, does the U.S. risk losing a decade’s worth of momentum and clean energy because of this policy reversal? I guess, give us the real take and your perspective on it.

Kimberlee Centera (24:16)

Well, I think if you look back historically, that’s the question that we’ve always asked. My very beginning in renewables, we worked on a project. It was an acquisition that they called the California bid. And so, there were all these projects that were awarded. And when the bottom was pulled out, everybody sat back and said, OK, what do we do now?

This has happened over the course of time. I think you’re going to see a lot of really smart people step up, and that’s a lot of what we’re seeing. yeah, it’s funny because if we go back two or three years and we got all the tax credits, it’s okay, we’re golden, we’re done, this is going to be it forever.

I thought it was interesting too. At that time, it was bipartisan; both Democrats and Republicans were able to come together and agree on this policy. So, I think with this industry and all the people that are dedicated to keep it going, yes, there’s going to be a shift, but I think it’s, at the end of the day, we’re going to lose a ton of time? I don’t think so.

Wes Ashworth (25:19)

Yeah, I don’t think so either. hoping you would share that as well. And I think it’s a valuable perspective and does really put the scale of this moment in context. But as you said too, so we’ve dealt with similar, different but similar versions of this as we’ve gone through in the evolution of the industry, still here, still pushing forward, still people that are really committed and as you said, really smart minds and people that are in this industry and committed to it. That gives me extreme hope as well.

I don’t think we’ll go back very far. And think, again, may actually propel things forward in turn. As you said, sometimes it’s like those growth moments that are really uncomfortable and really uncertain forces you to grow, to innovate, to seek partnerships maybe you wouldn’t have, open your eyes to different things, which in turn can propel things even better than maybe where we were headed prior to. So, wait and see, but I’m encouraged.

Kimberlee Centera (26:12)

Yeah, and I think in some respects, you could say, well, things needed to change. They needed to change. And that could be true of our industry as well. If you say, well, a few years ago we hit the pinnacle, right? And now we are where we are today. And then you look back historically, then what does that tell us? It tells us that maybe we need a different response, maybe this is really going to redirect some of our focus away from some of these other things, and really allow us to challenge ourselves and see how we show up.

Wes Ashworth (26:51)

Yeah, it’s a great perspective.

Kimberlee Centera (26:52)

So, it’s an opportunity. I’ve always believed that even with my business, when I’ve had things that could be stunning setbacks or challenges. And I’ve tried to look at it from the standpoint of, how can we turn this into an opportunity? And I think it requires really taking a hard look at what you’re doing, how you’re doing it. And so maybe some things did need to change because typically, we don’t want to change.

It really takes a lot, right? The pain of not changing has to be worse than the pain of changing. So, I think we’re in a little bit of that kind of moment. And that’s why I’m excited about the leadership. I’m excited about what I’m seeing in the rooms that I’ve been sitting in, the people who are undeterred. And they’re going to figure out a way. We will figure out a way to make it work.

Wes Ashworth (27:47)

Yeah, I love that message. So powerful and right on, just spot on, I think, with what’s happening as well, too. So, I’m positive, you’re positive. What would you say, maybe to some investors or developers who are thinking about pausing or exiting the U.S. market? What’s the message you’re communicating?

Kimberlee Centera (28:04)

I think for those that are pausing when you talk about, like you asked me about, will we lose a decade worth of momentum or whatever? For me, the danger in pausing if you’re a developer right now is that those who are moving forward. They are figuring out a way are going to capture that opportunity and those are those who pause. I think it’s going to be exponential loss, right? If I have a chance to tell people, and I do, if you pause six months at the end of the day, you’re not going to be just six months behind. You might be 12 or 18 months behind because of all the other people who are out in the forefront. They’re figuring out a way to make it work.

So, I think it’s, it’s a scary prospect, really, to pause because you’re going to lose so much momentum. And at the end of the day, I’m not sure that that’s really going to serve you. So, if we can help our clients figure out ways to get through this and how they can be smart, we know due diligence is going to change. We talked a little bit about, if some of this federal backing goes away, then that’s going to make some of our due diligence tougher and maybe a little bit more strenuous.

So, how can we help our clients and help people respond to that? If it’s gonna really all be just to the project and there won’t be these other avenues. So, I think it will challenge a lot of people to really show up and think about things differently.

Wes Ashworth (29:36)

Yeah, it’s an important message and I agree. Patience usually pays off and I think stick with it. And to that point too, like if you find ways to succeed and find ways to figure it out in this environment, like what does that set you up for? In terms of just that, perpetuating growth in the future. think it’s, renewable is not going anywhere. I don’t think it will. I don’t think there’s anything that could stop it totally, just outright. It’s one of those that has so much momentum. It’s like things can be slowed, hamstringed a little bit here and there, but ultimately, it’s going to happen. So, staying with that and looking at the long-term investment, obviously really wise and sound advice.

So, we talked a little bit there to investors, developers. We’ll switch it to every member of Congress. If you had 60 seconds with every member of Congress, what would you say to convince them to just restore renewable energy support?

Kimberlee Centera (30:23)

I think listening to the presentation around the idea of power and that there are families right now that have to choose and especially with costs going up. I think it’s incumbent upon us to look at it from: this is the United States, and the wealthiest country in the world, right? And the fact that we have this challenge in our communities still today, this is about people, it’s about human beings.

One of the things that I’ve been thinking about is how we change our narrative. Do we need to change our narrative? I’ve always talked to people who work in the renewable space, and the feedback I got is that I don’t know that people always related that to, yeah, that means that this power is gonna come online, and I won’t have to worry about blackouts or brownouts or I can turn on my electricity.

I started changing my narrative a little bit recently to talk about it on its most basic level. It’s about power. It’s about really being able to bring on power in a case where it’s supplementing a lot of these other things. And to me, that makes it real. And that’s, think, what I would tell Congress is, it really shouldn’t be, in my view, a partisan question, right? It should be a matter of looking at our communities and our people and understanding what this really means at its most basic level.

Because people relate and understand, they want my refrigerator to run. I want to be able to get my car out of the garage. I want to be able to charge my iPhone. I want to be able to take care of my family. And I really think, I would like to think that that is compelling for them to realize that we need to figure out a way to bring this all together. We know the demands are going to be huge.

I heard a statistic that there are 10 gigawatts of data centers that are waiting in Virginia to come online. So, we know that there’s going to be demand there, in all these different areas. So, that to me, I think the human level, and because again, I don’t know that everyone really connects this, kind of taking out that business argument, which of course is always there, just making it about people.

Wes Ashworth (32:51)

Yeah, it’s such a compelling way to put it. I love that connection to people, right? And yeah, I think when you look at it as well, we see those reports and demand increasing. What happens if we do nothing? I look at that and go, okay, if we’re already having an issue now, with some households that are having to choose between power and food, what happens when it increases and we do nothing, that we’re not putting more sources on the grid and making it available regardless? To your point, talk about energy, talk about power. That’s really what matters most in that just kind of state of life and quality of life.

So, I love that. I love the way you frame that. I think that’s such a powerful message. I think through that too. So, you and your role, you’ve got this front row seat to help policy and market dynamics shape leadership. And I want to really pivot to that, to what it means to lead through uncertainty. You’re just a phenomenal leader.

So, since the industrial revolution, there’s been this unspoken expectation that employees should operate like machines. I know it started there. It’s really cool to track that evolution and look at how that evolved and changed, and it’s expected for people to act like machines. I think it’s a recipe for disillusionment and burnout. We’ve seen plenty of that in the country as well. How can leaders create a safe environment for people to feel seen, heard, and valued?

Kimberlee Centera (34:18)

Well, and I think it’s kind of the essence of where we are. And I think it’s going to be the challenge going forward as we see our workplace environment shift. And as some of these younger generations come into the workplace, I think their values and structures are a little bit different.

And I think we know that based upon a lot of the data and everything that we’re seeing. So, I think there’s going to be kind of a, first of all, there’s going to be a demand from people, the workforce, and how we show up. But I think also there’s going to be a challenge, for leadership and the idea that people are commodities, I just don’t think it’s going to fly.

Now, I think it’s a very challenging time to be a leader. Right now, it’s probably never easy. I think communication is very important. I’ve had a lot of people ask me; they want to understand what does all this means. All these changes. And so, I think first of all, talking to people, providing a forum where you can talk to people. And that’s really the feedback I’ve gotten from my team is, let’s make sure that we have and provide environments where people can ask questions. We’re all virtual.

So, we’ve made it a point to come together more frequently and just open up the conversation and share the ideas, and hear about what people are thinking. So, I think first of all, as leaders, a lot of times maybe we’re just talking to the folks that we’re surrounded by, maybe our senior management or whoever it might be. But I think this is a really important time for all of us in those higher roles to make ourselves accessible and to give people a chance to voice their concerns.

We don’t always have all the answers, and we can’t always fix everything. But a lot of times, I don’t even know if people expect that. What they really want is they want to know that they have a forum to be seen and heard, and I spend a lot of time trying to make sure that everyone has a voice, and I think that’s the other important thing too, is do you do a big huge meeting or maybe do you make some of the meetings smaller? Because I think it’s important to make sure that everyone has a voice during this time. And that requires intentionality, right?

It really requires showing up and being willing to take the hard questions and being willing to not always have the answers, but we’re all here together and we’re going to get through this. And we talk a lot about how everything that we do it’s impacted by everyone in the business. Our client experience starts with somebody coming in and having that first conversation around the project and the help that they need.

It’s going to run all the way on a continuum through the operations group, how they show up. And I think having people know that their contribution is important and it makes a difference. And I’m very purposeful about letting people know, look, it’s not about a sale. It’s not about bringing somebody in. It’s about a relationship. It’s about the experience that they’re going to have in our company. Everyone is part of creating that experience.

So, I think those are powerful things that people right now feel out of control. we look around, and so a lot is happening to us. So, identifying the places that we can control as a leader. And letting our people know, look, we can control the experience people have when they work with us. We can control how they talk about us. We can control how we show up. So, let’s focus on that and let’s make that the best that we can. And then we’ll see what happens with the rest of it.

Wes Ashworth (38:21)

Yeah, that’s so good. It’s so powerful. And I love every bit of that. think the intentionality that was actually my word for the year this year is intentionality. So much happens when you are intentional, communicating as well, creating that open forum, making sure everybody’s heard. And truthfully, I think most important, as you said, as leaders to show up in these times of uncertainty, to show up for your people, to be able to listen, to be able to pour into them to be able to hear the fears, hear all their worries, hear the questions, and be able to answer those, and allow that time.

But the other powerful thing that happens, that if somebody feels safe, they feel heard, they feel a part of it, the innovation that then is born out of that, somebody on your team may unlock the thing that you need to succeed in this environment, those ideas come and they don’t always come from the top. And I think any top leader would tell you, they usually don’t come from the top. They usually come from me having an environment where my people share something. I’m like, my gosh, that is genius. Let’s talk through that and figure it out.

So, I love that so, so, so much. And I wanted to ask you too, so anything else your organization has done that, because I think this can help the whole industry, in terms of just articulating your organization’s values, or how you operate, how you show up every day, how has that impacted morale and performance and how do you keep that humming when things are a little less certain?

Kimberlee Centera (39:44)

We always really lean into our values because they really define who we are and it can sound trite, but I learned the hard way back before COVID, when I was trying to have conversations with people and I was frustrated because we couldn’t have the conversation that I wanted to have.

And you can’t force people to talk to you. You can’t force that; you can’t force it. So how do I create that? And we came around to this idea that we needed to define who we were. And we needed to create our values. And then we needed to talk about them. And we needed for there to be a language there. I think when you fast forward, what I’ve been incredibly blessed to see is that so many people have stepped up in our organization. They’re doing completely different things than they may have been doing on day one.

And I had one person comment to me recently, because we had a quarterly, and she mentioned that she wanted this advancement, and she wanted to be able to move up. We made it happen. And that really meant a lot to her and to us. And I look for traits. I look for characteristics. I look for engagement. I look for reciprocity. I look for people who want to show up, who want to learn, who want to move. And then when I see that, then I really want to encourage it and provide that opportunity. And so, I think it’s been a game-changer. And some of these things that have happened.

I would not have chosen some of these environments, but the good that’s come out of it, again, the challenge and then the opportunity is that it’s created new ways for people to advance and new ways for people to learn. And for me, that is the best part of what I do, and just encouraging that. So, I think it’s really super important. I think it’s more important now than ever. And I think the other thing that we’ve really been doing is stopping to celebrate even the small things.

We had a client that we wanted to bring in, and it had been a super long time since we really just kept talking to him. We knew we were gonna find the right combination at the right time. And it finally happened. We stopped to celebrate that as a team because it was a huge win for everyone. And we wanted everyone to know that they’re a part of it.

So, I think those things can be done at all different levels. But I think where we are now and kind of how leadership is shifting is that it requires so much more commitment, purpose, and intentionality from leaders. And it takes time and it takes work. And it takes showing up. takes, giving people these opportunities. When I have my quarterlies or whatever, I always tell people, look, this is just about you. I want to hear from you. Let’s talk. and it takes time to build that trust, but it’s also an opportunity.

Wes Ashworth (43:06)

Yeah, well worth it, right? And I agree, I mean, in times of uncertainty, too, even just clearly defining those values, living those values, encouraging those values, really just serve as a compass. Sometimes it’s hard to know which way is north when it’s a little uncertain and the ground’s moving, and that really does serve that and give some people something to anchor to and hold onto and start making decisions through as well. So, love that again. You’re always providing a masterclass in leadership, so definitely get that in there.

Kind of closing out, one thing I want to look at is just talking about resilience and the path forward in the industry. So, we’ve talked a bit about this throughout, but despite everything, what gives you hope right now? What signs of resilience or ingenuity are you seeing in the field? What’s the hope that you’re seeing?

Kimberlee Centera (43:52)

I think I was just at the Rise event in Atlanta, and it was interesting because when I was reflecting on the experience. I’m always amazed by all the super smart, sharp, young people, right? Because I feel like someone like me, I should be stepping back and providing a pathway for some of the young folks who are coming in. But I was so excited about the resilience, the innovation, the commitment, and the people that showed up. And I remember thinking that if these people represent just a fraction of all of us who are working hard in this industry, we’re going to be okay. We’re going to get there. We’re going to get to the other side.

And I really believe that. I saw it, and I saw the encouragement. And so, I think that is going to make the difference. And I think that’s what’s going to keep it from not losing all the momentum is all those people that are working really hard to continue to make projects happen and continue to find solutions, which I think is what is really going to continue to propel us. And I’m very excited, and I feel like super excited to kind of step aside a little bit and let all these great ideas and everything come forward. Let’s do it. one of the advantages of a time like this is that really nothing is off the table. I mean, it’s the time to brainstorm.

It’s the time to get people together and hopefully, people are providing opportunities like you said for people to come forward with ideas.

Wes Ashworth (45:44)

Yeah, it’s so encouraging. I love hearing just the encouragement, the resilience, the ideas coming from even the next generation and those leaders that are coming up. So, I love that. You’ve always emphasized the long view. So, let’s think about this moment. Ten years from now, what would success look like if we get this right in this moment?

Kimberlee Centera (46:01)

I heard something really interesting that was said and it really resonated with me when we’re in a room. We should be thinking about all the people who are not at the table. We know who’s there. But part of our advocacy is all these people who are not at the table. And I think so as we move forward and as we use this time as an opportunity, then I would love to see it look the way it should look. Why should we have one in three families that are struggling? Those are things that we should be able to fix.

And so, I think it’s incumbent upon us as leaders, as participants in this industry, to remember all those people who are not in the room, we’re representing them as well. We’re fighting for them too. We want this change and we want this innovation also for them. And so, I would love to be able to look back at this time and say, it was extremely difficult, but the brave showed up and we made a difference. We brought people to the table that needed to be there.

And we didn’t forget those people who are relying upon us to really show up. And so, I think we’ll be able to look back with pride and know that it was a pivotal moment, and we showed up and we rolled up our sleeves. We did the hard work. And now, 10 years later, we can look back and say, yeah, we did the hard thing and we got through it.

Wes Ashworth (47:43)

Absolutely. It’s a great vision, and I think it’s always helpful to step back and look at the long arc of where the industry is headed. That long-term lens really feels like exactly what’s needed right now and thinking about that. So, thank you for sharing that message. Final question for our listeners. What can they do now to help protect the future of clean energy? What’s encouragement, or some things they can practically do?

Kimberlee Centera (48:04)

I think get involved, get involved in what feels correct for you. After the election, when so many of my female counterparts were down and I reached out to my network and I said, we need to do something. What can we do? again, kind of feeling hopeless and a little helpless, and it was so exciting for me to see my network show up. We ended up doing an event where we brought women together, women and men, and we talked about where we are. We were open about it. We talked about how we can encourage and support one another. So that was what felt correct for me. And I think there are a lot of ideas out there. There are a lot of different things you can do.

Getting involved and making sure that people are hearing those stories, this is the time for us to make sure that we are actively involved in some way and have an impact, whatever that feels right for you. And a lot of my place is recognizing that as a woman who’s come up through the ranks, especially in a lot of industries where, a lot of times, I was the only woman in the room, but we can make a difference, and we have. And so just bringing all that together, I think, is really important.

Wes Ashworth (49:25)

Yeah, such a strong note to end on with that. Kimberlee, thank you for another just thoughtful, grounded, and powerful conversation. Your clarity and conviction and your heart, it always just brings perspective to moments like this and to our listeners as always. Thank you for tuning in. Please be sure to subscribe, rate, and share the Green Giants podcast with your network. With that, we will see you soon.