Green Giants – Episode 34

Dan Balaban (01:31)

Yeah, happy to share that. Maybe I could tell you a little bit about how I grew up. I think that kind of formed who I am today and some of the things that I did in my career. So, I was actually born in Toronto, Eastern Canada. Growing up there, a lot of people had cottages on a lake somewhere, but my family had a farm. So, I actually spent my childhood on the farm.

We moved to Calgary when I was a child. Calgary is in Western Canada, the energy center of the country. Some people call it the Texas of the North. But I grew up around the energy industry because my late father was in that industry, so I got a good sense of the energy industry. I was always interested though, in computers growing up, so I got a degree in computer science from the University of Toronto and started my career in consulting around tech, around this new technology called the internet and how it could be used to improve people’s businesses. So, I started consulting my first company though that I started was in my mid-20s. It was a software company for the oil and gas industry, and it had many capabilities, but one of which included helping manage and report greenhouse gas emissions on an annual basis. So that gave me early insight into the looming environmental challenges that I could see the energy industry facing. I had a successful exit from that software company when I was 30 and with my own capital and desire to do something that I think would leave a positive lasting environmental impact and I could see the opportunity. Did my research and started GreenGate with my brother Jordan almost 18 years ago. And the goal was to prove that large scale renewables that we were starting to see pop up in various places around the world could work in our home province of Alberta and in Canada.

And 18 years later, it’s been quite a journey, but really proud of the projects that we’ve been able to develop.

Wes Ashworth (03:38)

Yeah, it’s an incredible story and super cool and kind of following up on that question. So, what is that like, you going into, you mentioned, I love the phrase “Texas of the North” in this like oil and gas type of economy and so much centered around that. What were some of the early challenges of starting in that kind of environment? Was there pushback or was it just kind of like, pretty accepting and pretty easy to get going in that?

Dan Balaban (04:07)

I mean, renewable certainly wasn’t as polarizing as it is today, but you know, history repeats itself. so back, when we started, there was still quite a fair bit of renewables interest, particularly here in our home province. Alberta was actually one of the first places to see commercial deployment of large-scale wind in North America. So, you know, it’s been around here for a while, but when we started, it was still pretty much a nascent industry with lots of interest.

And I found people in general were pretty receptive to it, particularly in the rural areas of the province where we were having to sign up land and develop these projects. I mean, the economic development opportunity was welcome. The market framework was challenging for sure.

There weren’t a lot of PPAs available in Alberta at that time. So, we had to be pretty creative around that, around the sort of commercial structures. I’d say the biggest challenge was generally the acceptance that renewables were a good place to invest money. That’s changed by an order of magnitude today. But yeah, it’s been quite the evolution, I’d say.

Wes Ashworth (04:59)

Yeah, and thinking about that, so starting GreenGate as really a bootstrap company, you and your brother, I know that that required bold vision, and you look at where you are today and you’re like, man, that is incredible growth in 18 years. What lessons from those early days still guide your approach to leadership and innovation today?

Dan Balaban (05:43)

Well, think it all starts with a vision, right? You need to have a vision of where you’re going and what you want to be and really believe in that. And then it’s bringing in the team to coalesce around that new vision and all the various partners, various people that one works with along the way.

And then having tremendous perseverance. That’s really, I think, the difference between those that have ideas and try and ultimately don’t succeed and those that succeed. There’s also certainly some timing and luck along the way, but perseverance. Every new business venture always takes a lot longer and is more challenging than one could anticipate. And the best crafted plans will be derailed by something that’s often outside of one’s control. Yeah, perseverance is key.

Wes Ashworth (06:45)

Yeah, digging into that a little bit more. So, was there a specific instance or challenge, maybe in the early days, that just led to maybe a pivotal change in your business strategy, or you thought it was going to go this way, it didn’t quite go that way, you had to course correct and that’s often the way it works, but anything really stand out to you?

Dan Balaban (07:08)

Yeah, there’s certainly one moment that stands out in my mind and that would be the global financial crisis of 2008 and 2009, I believe. At that time, it was fairly early on in our company’s history. We had a large pipeline of projects that we had developed that were looking very promising. We were sufficiently capitalized to take us through to the next major milestone that we saw, which was going to be the financing of our portfolio. So, we signed an LOI in the summer of 2008. So, we found the partner was looking all great. And in between signing the LOI and the time we were supposed to sign our definitive documents, Lehman Brothers went bankrupt, and the global financial crisis happened. The world went very quickly from an abundance of capital to no capital. The global financial markets were completely frozen. So, at that point in time, I was faced with a pretty difficult decision. We were running out of runway at Greengate. This deal blew up because of those external circumstances. And I had to decide if we were going to pull the pin on the company or if I was going to go all in. And all in meant me mortgaging my house and injecting liquidity that we needed to keep the company going. And I chose to go all in. I don’t know why, but I did. It all worked out, but that was certainly a pivotal moment for me personally and I think in really digging deep and deciding to proceed with our company.

Wes Ashworth (08:45)

Yeah, and we’ve talked about that previously, and we’ll get into that sort of the consistency and persistent, but also, I think that unwavering belief that it’s like when it’s just looking bleak that you’re just like, you know what, I’m just going to keep marching forward. And so, obviously going all in, big upside on the other side doesn’t come without its risk, doesn’t come without a lot of uncertainty, which you’ve been through. Thinking about that consistency and persistence in building GreenGate, can you share another moment where your resolve maybe was tested and how you stayed the course?

Dan Balaban (09:17)

Well, I think, you know, in the development of renewable energy projects, there’s all sorts of ups and downs along the way. So, I’d say, my career in this space has been defined by working through, constant challenges. I talked about, the global financial crisis, but then there’s various policy challenges along the way, changes of government, political leadership that can dramatically change the course of the power industry in any given market. You know, things have also been very positive with changes of government. But this is an industry that’s very challenging. It’s not for the faint of heart. It’s filled with landmines.

And those that do well in it are attracted to the challenge. Every day you wake up, there’s a new thing that you have to worry about and work through. So, yeah, it’s not for the faint of heart. It’s filled with challenges, but it can be rewarding to work through.

Wes Ashworth (10:25)

Yeah, worth it in the end, but you’ve got to be hardwired a certain way and have that there. Yeah, definitely one of the more resilient industries, I think, that exists in kind of dealing with the ups and downs and just things out of your control and just making it work. So that’s big piece of it. Thinking about the projects you’ve done, and I want to spend some time on this. So GreenGate has delivered the largest wind and solar projects in Canada, which is remarkable. Can you tell us a little bit about those projects and what lessons maybe other renewable energy leaders can learn when it comes to scaling some bold ideas and launching big projects?

Dan Balaban (11:01)

Yeah, so when we started the company, we went big right away. So conventional thinking is you start small and then you kind of grow incrementally from there. But we’re in the development business and our approach was to take on the biggest projects that we credibly take on. Credibility is important, right? You need to be able to, especially as a new company, establish the trust with the various partners that you need to work with. And you need to balance that with lofty ideas, need to come up with something that’s big but realistic. So, we erred on the side of big and the first project we developed successfully was at the time the largest wind project in the province.

We followed that up with a project that was double the size of that, which at the time was the largest wind project in the country, project called Black Spring Ridge. We no longer own it, but we were the developers of that project. And then more recently, we were the developers of what is the largest solar project in Canadian history, a project called Travers Solar.

Again, we no longer own that project, but we were the original developers of that project. We originally partnered with Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, large Danish based, one of the largest renewable energy funds in the world, who ultimately built out that project with us. That was their first investment in Canada. So that was pretty cool, bringing a top tier international investor into Alberta, Canada and then that project also has a long-term PPA with Amazon who’s buying that project under long-term contract to meet their green objectives, renewable objectives they’ve set. And that was one of the first big tech companies to come and do PPAs in Canada.

We also had a wind farm that we did recently , a PPA with Microsoft on that project. So, we’ve kind of been on the very much the leading edge, the pioneering edge, I would say, of some pretty cool trends in the industry, proving what’s possible. And as a result, for a long time, Alberta was one of the leading places in North America to invest in renewables.

I’m very proud of the role that our leadership and our company played in that.

Wes Ashworth (13:29)

Yeah, without a doubt. It is so cool. I love the bold vision of just like starting out right, right off the bat. We’re going big. Not many people have the courage to do that or the lack of, I don’t know, fear or whatever. Most people want to start safe and small and then kind of like scale up as we go. But that was not you, which I love. I love that. Any thinking about that? So starting out, another developer coming in, you may be they’re thinking about something small or it could be like you go, big or go home. What are the differences in terms of, is it in your mind significantly different when you think about the challenges of a larger scale project versus smaller mid-tier? What are the significant differences there for you?

Dan Balaban (14:16)

Well, in the development business, not really that much on the surface. It’s difficult to develop any project. So, we just decided that instead of our first project being a 10-megawatt project, our first project was 150-megawatt project and followed up with a 300-megawatt project and more recently, almost a 700-megawatt solar project.

But all the pieces are a lot of it’s the same, right? You’ve got to consult with the public. You’ve got to work through the interconnection process. You’ve got to deal with local landowners, environmental assessments, permitting with the various authorities and raise capital. And so, a lot of those elements are the same. You need the same type of team, almost the same relative effort. It does scale up a bit for bigger projects. But the real difference is the amount of capital.

So, one would think that with a lot of capital, it’s going to be way more difficult to raise. And it’s kind of counterintuitive and call it the law of big numbers. But the way the financial system set up is generally investors want to write big checks, especially in the renewable energy industry. There’s a lot of institutional investor interest in this space.

That’s really what’s changed from when we started 18 years ago to today is just the availability of that capital is really, there’s way more capital. The problem is there’s not enough good projects to deploy it all into. So, with a big project you’re actually able to attract, if you’re able to do it credibly, the top advisors, everybody wants to work with you, the top bankers, the top lawyers, the top engineering firms, environmental firms, construction firms, equipment suppliers. And there is a ton of diligence though, that goes into raising a big amount of capital that cannot be underestimated. There’s a tsunami of capital out there, but despite that, it’s very difficult to actually get these sophisticated investors to cut big checks.

But assuming you do all that diligently, with the right team in place, with the right projects, with the right political conditions that maintain, it’s possible to do it. So the law of big numbers is what we follow.

Wes Ashworth (16:38)

Yeah, I love it. I was wondering if you were going to say that because I’ve heard the opposite, people getting into these smaller things and kind of realizing like, we thought this was going to be easier. It actually is somewhat similar. So, you mentioned securing some big partnerships or power purchase agreements with companies like Amazon, Microsoft. I guess you tell us a little bit about that, what went into that and how those partnerships shaped the trajectory of GreenGate and its impact.

Dan Balaban (16:50)

So, Alberta is a really interesting power market. In Canada, it’s the only deregulated power market, meaning it’s the only market in our country where bilateral PPAs are possible. Everywhere else, it’s done with a provincially owned utility. So that creates the opportunity for some commercial innovation. And what we were seeing is the trend around corporate renewable procurement that was taking place in the United States, companies like Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Apple, Meta, all the big companies that were buying renewable energy under long-term contract in the US in order to meet their renewable requirements. We worked with a small number of other parties to try to create that ecosystem that existed in the US here into Canada. And we were one of the founders of something called the Business Renewable Centre Canada, which tried to create the education and the ecosystem to facilitate those sorts of transactions. And we were persistent and invested the time, which took several years. And eventually conditions were ripe for those sorts of deals that were being done south of the border to be done here in Alberta.

And we were in the mix of that and we were fortunate to do deals, like I said, with Amazon on one of our projects, Microsoft on another one of our projects. There’s banks that have done renewable procurement deals out here. beer companies, different consumer brands like it, it was something that was generating a lot of interest in deals here in Alberta up until recently.

Wes Ashworth (18:51)

Yeah, that’s incredible. I want to hit on something that you touched on really briefly, but we talked about before, just around landowner relationships and land acquisition. It’s a critical, but often complex, part of renewable projects, as we all know. What’s a particularly memorable story or lesson you’ve learned from working with landowners?

Dan Balaban (19:10)

Yeah, so renewable energy development project is super complex. It takes many years to go through and get a project from idea to steel in the ground, but doesn’t start until you are able to secure the land. So, one of the projects we completed recently, a project called Paint Earth, we did it in partnership with a company called Potentia, who now are the the owners of the project, but we were the original developers. So, we made an appointment up with one of the key landowners and in Alberta, the key landowners are Hutterites. So, Hutterites are a Christian religious sect and they live on collective farms and they’re very sophisticated in their business operations.

Anyways, big landowners in Alberta. So, we made an appointment with the boss of the colony and drove up there three and a half hours and get to the colony and we’re like, “where’s the boss?” And they’re like, “well, the boss is with the turkeys.” So, we drive to the turkey barn, get to the turkey barn. “Where’s the boss?” “The boss is with the cows.” Well, we get to the cows and the boss is there. Eventually we’re able to track him down.

He invites us into his house and literally very, very humble abode. And he’s like, “well, what can I do for you boys?” I was there with my brother and said, “well, we’re here to sign up your land. You know, like we discussed on the phone.” And he’s like, “well, think you’re talking to the wrong person.” And I said, “well, what do you mean?” And he passes over a card. It’s a business card of one of our competitors, “your competitors were here this morning talking about the same thing.” And I said, “well, did they come with a check?” He said, “no.” I said, “I’ll write you a check right now, but you got to sign with us. Thinks about it.” He’s like, “okay.”

That’s it. Signed with us. And that’s the birth of what’s now a $350 million operating wind farm.

Wes Ashworth (20:59)

That’s incredible. I love that story so much. And I’m sure there’s a lot like that, you know what I mean? Never a part to be ignored. It’s always deal with people as we know. It’s sometimes tricky and interesting; solve problems, get creative, make it happen, which you did.

Dan Balaban (21:19)

Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes you need to make bold moves. mean, we didn’t have the sight fully diligenced, but we had to make the move and it paid off.

Wes Ashworth (21:35)

You do what you gotta do. Yeah, love it. With that lighthearted topic, I’ll switch to something maybe a little bit more serious, but something you hit on, which I agree I’m very passionate about just the polarization and energy and how it shouldn’t be that way. So, anything we can help to continue to bridge that divide? You’ve highlighted divisive nature of some energy debates, and I’m just curious to hear from you. How can industry leaders move beyond polarization to focus on actionable solutions for the energy transition?

Dan Balaban (22:07)

You know, so you asked me, what’s changed in the industry from when we started 18 years ago, this is what’s changed – the polarization, around this topic. You know, what I find is, most major global issues today are framed in a binary manner, demanding that we choose what seems to be one extreme side or another, but the solutions often lie in the middle.

And I think energy is certainly a major global issue and an issue where that sort of thinking applies. doing what we do in Alberta, which is the heart of oil and gas country here in Canada is unique, right? Because we’re on the front lines of this energy discussion. So for me, it’s not an either or decision. It’s been framed as oil and gas versus renewables when it’s an and. We can and we should be developing both those energy resources simultaneously. And, you know, we’re talking about, an energy transition. But really, I think what we’re seeing, things are evolving very quickly in this world. And I think really what we’re seeing is energy growth all over the world. And the key is to try to find a way to do it in a more sustainable manner. And we’re seeing lots of different trends. So, for a long time, climate change seemed to be the primary issue that was driving decisions. Then we saw war break out in the Ukraine and energy security started to become the primary issue and, things swinging back from climate change as being the primary driver of decision-making, right? Now we had to balance that with energy security. And now what we’re seeing is layering on top of that, this massive energy growth that’s being projected over for the foreseeable future driven by the growing demands of electrification, but more importantly, AI and data centers, right?

So, the fact is we need all forms of energy. We need it in order to keep our lifestyle, to keep our standard of living, to help the developing world improve their standard of living, to provide the energy to the technology that’s going to drive the world and to the future. And, yeah, just find a way to do it more sustainably going forward. That means more renewables, but that also means more fossil fuel energy in the future.

We need to be understanding and accepting of that fact because the fight that ends up happening politically on this issue doesn’t serve us, right? And yeah, really, I think try to take a more pragmatic approach to things.

Wes Ashworth (24:53)

Yeah, I agree completely and that’s so well said. Speaking of that a little bit more, so thinking about the balance, right? And there are a lot of, I would say even, a lot of folks in our industry that are just dead set against sort of that both and philosophy. How do you see it evolving?

If you’re speaking directly to those individuals, and I’m sure you get in those conversations at dinner or what have you, it’s a one-on-one conversation. There’s some trust built there. How do you, have that conversation in terms of helping bring them more towards the middle and an acceptance of, is it gonna require some of both? And it is a transition. It’s not an instant kind of like all in or nothing type of thing. But I’m just curious, what are some of those conversations like when you’re one-on-one with somebody that has that perspective.

Dan Balaban (25:42)

You know, I’ve had that conversation a lot here given what I’m doing. Well, I think it all first needs to start from a place of understanding if somebody is putting forth a point of view to me that, I don’t necessarily agree with. I think this is a lesson for all of us. Like we should really try to understand where the other side is, is coming from, right? It’s really trying to start from a place of, of understanding. But you know, on this particular issue, do a mental exercise, close your eyes and imagine the future, try to look at it pictured in detail, so in your vision, do you see more electric cars?

Probably yes, right? In your vision, 10 years into the future, let’s usually do 10 years into the future, do you still see gas-fired cars on the road? Do you still see us using natural gas to heat our homes? Most people will say yes to all three of those questions, right? So, it’s like we’re advancing, but we’re still using what we have today, it’s going to take time, right? And I would even argue that we don’t need to ultimately get off one system entirely on another. We can find a way to just make everything more efficient. We need all of it. So, when you kind of play that mental exercise, people start buying into it, right? And then there’s these misconceptions, right? Like on the fossil fuel side, there’s still people that believe that renewables are unreliable and expensive and all that sort of stuff, and there’s no money for it. He only works with subsidies, right?

And then on the renewable side, you know, there’s this belief that you can simply shut off the taps. Not everybody is on the extreme side, you can simply shut off the taps and replace it with all renewable system right away and that’s also not true, right? We need both. So, it’s trying to work through those misconceptions as well that exist on both sides and try to take a pragmatic view on this. Energy is absolutely core to all of our lives. We have trillions of dollars invested in energy infrastructure all over the world. There’s going to be more investment of it and changes are going to take time, but there’s still a huge opportunity for renewables and we’ve seen it growing massively over last number of decades and I think it’ll continue to grow.

Wes Ashworth (28:04)

Yeah, without a doubt. I’m so glad I asked you that question. That was such a cool, cool exercise to go through. So, thinking about another thing you’ve hit on, you mentioned AI data centers, obviously, that’s driving energy demand and growth. From your perspective, how do you see renewables meeting these challenges? And any innovations or solutions you’re particularly excited about? Like from your perspective, what’s going on in that world?

Dan Balaban (28:37)

Yeah, I’d say this is probably the area that I’m most excited about at the moment. A lot of the big companies around the world, including the tech companies, made commitments to source 100% of their energy from renewables. And I believe most of those companies are on target to do that. And that target was like mid 2020s, which we’re in now, right? We’re here, right? But that was just to deal with kind of existing demand. Now we’ve got this new thing or this thing that has finally emerged to kind of mainstream use, which is AI, which is a very, energy intensive, thing you’ve got cloud computing applications, you know, storage, this massive amount of data. All these things are really energy intensive and growing at a tremendous rate.

So that’s driving new energy demand in ways that we did not expect it. However, that I think at least my assessment of it, is putting pressure on kind of the whole climate versus energy growth, right? And I think what we’re seeing is, you know, energy growth at this point in time ruling the day as all these applications are driving more energy demand. So, I think it’s really highlighting the need for all of the above. There’s going to be more investment in fossil fuel sources of energy, more investment in renewable sources of energy just to meet this growing energy demand. But I think it also highlights one of the challenges that still remains with renewables, which is providing energy on a 24 seven basis. Like a lot of these, these users of energy have very high reliability requirements, five nines, right? 99.999% reliability. Today, a renewable system alone is unable to provide that level of reliability. You’d still need renewables combined with dispatchable sources of generation. It just really highlights some of the current limitations. And to tell you the truth, if you asked me 18 years ago if we would have had this problem solved by now, I would have thought we would, but we don’t. Storage is still something that requires more technological advancement to be on a long duration basis, lithium-ion batteries are important from a storage perspective and are out there. But I think it just highlights the need for all sources of energy. We don’t have any one system that could provide the level of reliability that’s required. But there’s lots of opportunity for folks in the energy space. And I’m also kind of getting back to my roots a little bit with some work in the VC world around AI and energy. But yeah, I think it’s something that I’m very excited about. I think this presents a really unique once in a generation opportunity for those working in this sector.

Wes Ashworth (31:42)

Yeah, I agree. mean, just the emergence of the growth in the AI and data centers and the energy demands. And then you think about the companies that that represent it, the big names in tech, people with the most kind of investment capital to deploy. So, all right, they’re going to get behind and start rolling out more and more and more of these projects I do see it as an exciting time. It’s a challenging time as always, but there’s a lot of cool things that are happening. So, you mentioned that your involvement through VC fund, you’re investing in energy and AI startups. What are some of the things like, what’s most promising technologies or ideas you’ve seen in that?

Dan Balaban (32:22)

Yeah, so I’m a partner in a VC firm called Augur, and our first fund is Energy AI Fund. And what we do is we invest in startups that are deploying AI technology to solve energy problems and the reverse, energy companies that are solving unique challenges in the energy space that are driven by the growing demand for AI.

Yeah, so a number of cool companies in our portfolio, one of the ones that I think is really cool, a company called Dataline. So, if you think about AI that most people are familiar with, it’s ChatGPT right? So, a lot of us have played around with ChatGPT and you can ask it any question, it’ll give you an answer. And it has a ton of breadth of knowledge, but not a ton of depth of knowledge, right? So data line is targeted at large energy infrastructure transactions. it’s software that helps with the due diligence process around large energy infrastructure transactions and has AI built into it, AI copilot built into it that’s specifically tailored for that. So, you think about the amount of time that goes into due diligence around these large multi-hundred million or multi-billion-dollar transactions that dozens and dozens of people that are looking at a data room and what the opportunity could be to streamline that process tremendously with the right application of AI. That’s an example of one of those things. We invest in companies that are started by founders with existing AI experience, which is difficult to find, but we’ve been very good at plugging into that network of talent. Given our great kind of expertise in energy and Calgary being a great pilot market for a lot of, and Alberta being a great pilot market for a lot of this, it’s just been something that’s been a lot of fun and for me to help advise the next generation of entrepreneurs and help coach them through some of the challenges they’ll face along the way.

Wes Ashworth (34:36)

Yeah, it’s really cool stuff and glad you’re involved in that and how much that is needed. Just some of that like mentorship and guidance and folks that, what you’ve learned over the last 18 years and the strides you’ve taken helping, then again, give back and sort of invest in others, mentor, bring those ideas along as well too, which is amazing. As we get kind of closer to time, I have a few more questions I wanna hit on.

So, the renewable energy industry has undergone tremendous evolution over the last two decades, we’ve highlighted and talked about throughout. What do you think has been the most surprising or transformative change during your time in the industry?

Dan Balaban (35:12)

Well, I’d say the most surprising change has been the cost reductions. When I started in the industry 18 years ago, the narrative was renewables are great for the environment, but they’re expensive. Now that narrative has completely changed. renewables are both great for the environment and they’re now our lowest cost source of new power generation we have available to us. The implications of that are dramatic. So, it’s not just driven by an altruistic ideological desire to see renewables. It’s an economic decision that’s being made. What I do find surprising on the flip side, like I alluded to before, is still the gap that exists in turning renewables into a 24-7 resource. I think storage has come a long way but has come along slower than I would have expected, but it continues to advance at a breakneck pace and I’m sure we’ll continue to see things change in that space.

Wes Ashworth (36:11)

Yeah, without a doubt. I’ll rapid fire a few more. So, you mentioned advice for early-stage leaders and some of the things you’re involved with. What’s the one piece of advice you’d give to entrepreneurs or innovators just entering their renewable energy space? And I’m sure you probably give this advice and have, but curious what that is.

Dan Balaban (36:28)

You know, every new business is going to take a lot longer and be a lot harder to reach success than you could ever imagine. The challenges will often come from external circumstances that are outside of your control. But if you are truly connected to your vision, continue to persevere, success can come out of the other side.

Wes Ashworth (36:54)

Yeah, and it probably will if you continue. Like, I think we’ve touched on that a little bit of you just keep going and persisting. Now you do have to, I think, adapt and change and you’ve got to course correct a little bit there, but just the fact of just staying persistent, staying with it, continuing with it, you’ll find success somewhere on the other side of that. You don’t know exactly where it’s going to come and it’s hard to predict that I think is what you’re saying too. It’s going to take longer than probably you expect. But you know, that’s it, persistence is key.

Dan Balaban (37:23)

It could also take only 30 seconds to drown. So always try to keep your head above water.

Wes Ashworth (37:28)

Right, yeah. Great advice there too. So, as we enter 2025, we’re gonna hit on a couple of things here. So, you know, starting off early in the year, what are your thoughts for 2025? You know, what are you excited about? What’s your just overall sentiment for what’s gonna happen this year in the industry and just your feelings as a whole?

Dan Balaban (37:48)

Yeah, I mean, think 2025 is a very, very, very exciting year. I mean, it’s a year that’s fraught with uncertainty, geopolitical uncertainty, so you know, uncertainty is going to be there for sure. But it does seem like there’s unprecedented demand for energy and renewables are continuing to grow. So, I think we’re going to start, we’re going to continue to see a lot of growth, not everywhere, different places have different regional considerations that might affect things in the short term. But there’s growth in a lot of places and I’m really excited to continue to see what sort of advances we’re going to see out of AI and new use cases, new applications. Cool year for technology for sure.

Wes Ashworth (38:34)

Yeah, agreed. If you were to make one bold prediction about the renewable energy sector, let’s say over the next three to five years, even to 10, I guess, what would that be and why?

Dan Balaban (38:46)

Well, I think what we’re going to see is the storage problem solved and renewables starting to provide 24-7 power. So, I’m hopeful of that. But I also think it’s not just going to be renewables. think nuclear is going to have a role going forward. who knows? Maybe there’ll be advancements in something like nuclear fusion that’ll take it from the lab to something that could have visibility to providing commercial scale power. So, I think kind of lots of things on the horizon. I think we’ll be continuing to use oil and gas in a significant way even 10 years from now.

Wes Ashworth (39:12)

Right? Agreed. Final closing question. just when you reflect on your career, GreenGate’s impact, what do hope your legacy will be in advancing the renewable energy industry?

Dan Balaban (39:38)

Well, I hope we’ll be a story that people look to about what’s possible with an idea and hard work and a really relatively small team. And so hopefully we’ll inspire entrepreneurs to get involved in this industry or whatever their entrepreneurial journey is. And always be remembered as a team that proved what’s possible and helped lead the way to billions of dollars of investment, to a certain extent we’ve already done. So, I’m really proud of the legacy and the $2 billion of projects that we’ve developed that are now operating and producing renewable energy, hopefully for generations to come.

Wes Ashworth (40:22)

Yeah, I love it. And as you said, a lot of that you’ve already done. I think you’re already inspiring those folks. So just continue that and really inspired by your work. So that’ll wrap our conversation with Dan Balaban, co-founder and CEO of GreenGate. Dan, it really, truly has been inspiring to hear your journey, the groundbreaking projects that GreenGate has delivered and your vision for balancing a sustainable energy future, a balanced approach.

So to our listeners as always, thank you for tuning in to Green Giants, Titans of Renewable Energy. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, share it with your network and leave us a review. And with that, we will see you soon.