Green Giants – Episode 35

Jody Snodgrass (02:46)

It’s, you know, the things I just talked about really is construction first. We are a construction company. We deliver projects. We self-perform 80 plus percent of every project that we do perform, but still underlying the integration piece. I think in the industry, renewable industry over the last many years, particularly around batteries,
people have undersold or underappreciated the amount of integration it takes to make the six major components of the battery system talk to each other.

Wes Ashworth (03:19)

Yeah, and getting more into that, so battery energy storage systems, or better known as BESS. It’s a difficult industry to master. In fact, Jody, in a previous conversation, you mentioned no company has yet delivered three consecutive successful battery projects. Why is that? And what steps is TruGrid taking to set this benchmark, redefine what success looks like?

Jody Snodgrass (03:41)

Yeah, so, there are lots of very competent EPC companies in the renewable industry market and great at digging ditches, landing wires, turning the wrenches to make projects, you know, get them in the ground and get them built. I think the tying together and integrating the disparate pieces of a BESS facility is, it’s hard making all the ones and zeros match up. It is not an easy thing to do. And it’s something that, you know, kind of the industry standard from mechanical completion to commercial operation or COD is about six months. And that’s, I’ve commissioned full oil and gas plants faster than six months And so it’s what we do a little different is leverage the great work that our integration and software teams, automation teams have do every single day, the teams that Ram leads. And we do the upfront work of making the ones and zeros talk to each other in the engineering and design phase through the construction with our offsite facilities and getting those to match up so that when we do get to the field, when it is time to start that commissioning and get you to COD, we can do it faster.

Wes Ashworth (05:02)

Yeah, and Ram, you can get more into this. At TruGrid, it’s positioned integration really as the critical link between engineering, project management, and commissioning. How does this approach accelerate project timelines and minimize the risk typically seen in traditional EPC models?

Ramanj Pamidi (05:18)

Right, again, I just want to echo what Jody said here. It’s the time, the speed of execution between the mechanical and the substantial completion is the key here. And this is how we do it at integration. Integration teams are incorporated into the entire lifecycle of the projects, right, all the way from the procurement, identifying the equipment, the technology, and the vendor and working hand-in-hand with engineering teams, reviewing all the engineering studies, drawing packages, and then using the in-house expertise, SMEs, subject matter experts, to help speed up the commissioning. That’s the first step.

And second, in integration, I’ve broken down the teams into three departments, one being the automation, which is all about the control systems: EMS, which is energy management system, SCADA, microgrid. And the second team consists of BESS, which is the storage technology, and the PCS, which is the power conversion systems, inverters. And the third team consists of BOP, which is balance of plant, all the equipment which is under this team. And we have invested in training these folks in the OEM vendor technologies, right?

And this is one of the key we de-risk the availability of OEM resources and availability to speed up the activities between the mechanical and the substantial completion. And third, we have standardized everything. We standardized the procedures, the test plans, all the used technology to the core. And lastly, we have made investment in our test bench or a test facility where we’re able to prototype, bring all the zeros and ones Jody talks about, different instruments, different mix, different protocols, bring it together and test it out in the warehouse so that the risks are addressed here before going onto the site, right?

Three things I keep telling my team, we need to keep in mind while doing this is, is security, reliability, and safety. And these are not negotiable.

Wes Ashworth (07:18)

Yeah, yeah. In this approach, learning more about it and what you guys are doing at TruGrid, it makes so much sense. And so the question is, and I’m curious to hear from your perspective and maybe Jody, you can chime in here, why doesn’t everybody do this? Why doesn’t every EPC out there have this same type of model and the same type of approach?

Jody Snodgrass (07:37)

I think, you know, there’s a couple of reasons. Number one is it is an expertise that is very specific to the industry. It’s not like you’re just going to go hire somebody off the street to know how batteries work. And, in addition to that, you have lots and lots of contractors, EPC, subcontractors, other folks in the industry who are again, very competent electrical utility contractors, but they are not specialists in BESS systems and specialist in batteries. The construction of this is relatively easy. Quite frankly, it’s, and I’m certain we’ll talk a little more later, but it’s much more an exercise in supply chain management and scheduling from a construction perspective than it is real construction.

However, the lining up again, I keep saying the same thing, but lining up the ones and zeros is not easy. And you have continual technology changes, have continual different players in the industry. There are a couple of folks who are big in batteries and big in inverters and transformers and those kinds of things, but their models change the technology updates. We get more and more power dense battery systems, which become infinitely more difficult to try to manage around heating and cooling and how they charge and discharge and those types of things. And we are first and foremost a battery storage company first. That is what we do. That’s where we came out of. And from the SunGrid infancy, it was software integration. That’s that.

What we did and we’ve leveraged that know-how and expertise and the good folks that we’ve had and brought on many more, coupled it with good construction, project management and those skills to be able to be a world-class BESS construction company.

Wes Ashworth (09:32)

Yeah, and that’s as they say, if it was easy, everybody would do it, right? Glad you guys are. Ram, from your technical perspective, what are some of the most overlooked factors when managing BESS projects? How does TruGrid’s’ approach ensure these complexities are addressed?

Ramanj Pamidi (09:38)

Great question, Wes, So managing a battery energy storage system project involves multiple layers of complexity, right? And there are several critical factors that are often overlooked. And by the way, we have a webinar scheduled on Jan 21 at 12 CT. So tune in for more details. But here are some of the many things which are overlooked.

I would start with warranty and degradation terms, right? It sounds simple, but there are issues around lack of return terms, lack of understanding of warranty requirements and degradation curves, and especially, how do you mitigate when there is project delays? I would start with this. As simple as that, I would say the first thing is have a written documentation of warranty and degradation curves with OEM vendors. And degradation curve is where the amount of battery can store the energy and how much it can discharge, right? And over a period of time, and based on multiple factors, age, temperature, the depth of charge, discharge, the number of cycles, there are different curves, right? This needs to be documented. I would say don’t feel shy. Ask OEM vendors, document it, and have a proper understanding. That’s the first step.

And second, certain OEM vendors, when bringing batteries just here to US, there is a requirement mandate to conduct something called FAT, which is Factor Acceptance Test for the warranty to kickstart. Have a clear clarity on what the timelines are and how the site or the test facility or maybe a warehouse so that you have all the equipment, all the switchgear equipment, generator sets, load banks ready, and a test plan to connect the FAT so that the warranty clock starts from there. Have the clear path. And again, this is not cheap.

And this should be something taught well ahead of when, almost at the bidding of the project itself, right? And the third, especially for the warranty, would say physical inspection, both external, internal. It could be weather-related issues. You know, people forget closing some of the doors. And invest in CCTV, right? CCTV, put in a fence for any natural disasters or any internet theft or et cetera. And incorporate IoT, which is Internet of Things, start monitoring data, BMS, put in data collection from the HVAC, data collection from the FSS, and incorporate these streams into your O&M operations. So we have a pair of us which are looking at the equipment and believe me, BESS is most expensive and fragile system. And there is a mandate by the vendors to maintain the SOC, which is called the state of charge and state of health.

And this requires generators to be running there to maintain the temperature and all that stuff to get the warranty. And this is one of the first things I would focus on. And second, I would say one of the challenges we have been in seeing in the industry is, “Hey, what’s a good time to bring in the battery? Do I bring way early in the project or maybe towards the end of the project?” You have delays, chances of finishing the substantial completion COD is delayed. If you bring early in the project and there’s any issues with the permitting, you’ve got to babysit the whole BESS. That’s not cheap. You need to have generators, load banks. The fuel cost gets really expensive.

At TruGrid we have measured this out. We have standardized test plans. We have a criteria to select a warehouse if you’re putting in a temporary storage so that the wearer should have all this facility in case there is a delay due to some permitting issues. How do we rent this equipment? And they say it’s not as easy as you bring it in a generator hookup to the battery, right? There should be some kind of a switch gear which need to be set up. And this cost adds up really fast and puts a dent into your profit margins, right?

So this is the second thing, how logistics like, strategies and having multiple vendors, are geographically diverse, right? And then permitting, engage local permitting authorities who have clear understanding what it takes in the timelines. And incorporate them into the project management workflows early in the project. And the third most important is the thermal management and fire safety. Thermal runaway. What we have seen is insufficient planning of cooling systems, fire suppression technology can lead to thermal runways. At TruGrid we have mastered this. We have standard designs for HVAC. We have fire detection and suppression mechanisms. And we are looking into the advanced technology like CCTV thermal imaging. So as part of our O&M we can incorporate this and see some heat signatures and be proactive about managing the thermal systems.

And the last thing I would say is, if there’s any delays, project delays caused due to the permits, start looking at a facility, when you’re negotiating with a facility, does it have enough space? Does it have cranes to move around? Does the facility have enough power capacity? Does it allow us to put in a battery? Because you need to keep this, as I said, babysit the BESS, to make sure the HVAC is running, the temperature is maintained, and the state of charge is also maintained. So these are some of the things which are overlooked and really effective to manage the project life cycle.

Wes Ashworth (15:05)

Yeah, it’s complicated. There’s a lot there, a lot to unpack. And I think people don’t normally realize that when you get into these projects, just how many different factors come into play, how many different complications there can be. You guys are taking really active steps to mitigate all of those.

So switching gears a little bit, just digging into your O&M side. Your O&M services not only support TruGrid’s projects, they also extend to third party and OEM contracts, which is quite unique in the industry. Not many others are doing this, and again, another differentiator. How does this broader experience shape your recommendations for future projects?

Jody Snodgrass (15:40)

Yeah, I’ll talk to that, Wes. You know, one of the beauties of us having an O&M services group and servicing not only projects that we build, but other facilities and projects and sites that have already been built, we get to learn a lot of what not to do. And what some of the, you know, there are good suppliers and poor suppliers. From a supplier perspective, it’s not just, it a good piece of equipment on day one, but how does it last over time? How do the batteries degrade? How does it hold up when it gets a little too warm or a little too cold? And all of the real world things that can happen to these systems as they sit out typically in a rural environment and the different elements that happen to them. How long does it take for the supplier to address some of the things like warranty issues and other stuff?

So we use that lesson learned and reincorporate that into our initial design when we’re even bidding projects and working with our customers to make sure that we pick, or help our customers select the right supplier for what it is they’re doing. In addition to that, we also learn how to better commission these things. What is it we can do upfront? Most of our, almost all of our O&M guys and gals are certified by particular suppliers and vendors and whatnot. And so they’re allowed to work on these systems. They’re allowed to dive into them and look and see where some of the issues are that we can engineer, design out the next time around and understand how some of that happens.

The one other thing I would say that we’ve done a very good job of leveraging is during that commissioning time period from mechanical completion to substantial or COD, we’re able to leverage some of those O&M service techs to be able to come in and accelerate again that time through commissioning. Because they are certified technicians, they’re allowed to work on the equipment and do what’s needed to help us get to COD faster.

Wes Ashworth (17:40)

Yeah, it’s incredible. And I love that, just the fact of like, it shows you sometimes what not to do or you see things that could be improved. Any example come to mind of where O&M insights led to a significant design or process change that really benefited your clients or improved project outcomes in the end?

Jody Snodgrass (18:06)

Sure, I can name a couple of scenarios, one of which we had an EMS provider basically go bankrupt during the construction. We were able to basically leverage, use some spare parts from other facilities and leverage some of our contracts and master service agreements with other suppliers to be able to lean on them, get some other equipment in a fairly quick fashion and do a little bit of design work and switch over. One of the other things that is really been kind of helpful for, that comes out of our O&M groups that’s helpful in the upfront design is really trying to design the system for the client that meets their specific needs.

And when you’re, there are different reasons to do battery energy storage and there are different reasons even contractually of how you’re releasing electrons back to the grid when they’re called for. Whether you have a PPA or you’re 100% merchant or some blend and really impacts your LCOS and, you know, in turn your LCOE of how you’re going to release those electrons and some systems are better and some equipment is better at releasing it and sucking up electrons quickly.

But maybe you degrade the battery faster. Maybe you’re only worried about a 10-year lifespan, not a 20-year or 30-year, and all of those things that we’ve been able to see over time through the O&M services group help to design a better system on the front end so that our client has a better experience with their long-term asset.

Wes Ashworth (19:48)

Yeah, I love that, and the value you get from having both sides of that equation. Shifting to a different topic, so just thinking about some industry challenges and strategic solutions and really navigating the permitting maze that we hear a lot about. So with the extensive permitting requirements for battery plants, what advice would you give to clients navigating this process? And are there specific regions or regulations that stand out as particularly challenging?

Jody Snodgrass (20:13)

Yeah, happy to talk about that. There are certainly a lot of things that are in either your EPC or in the client’s control from a permitting perspective or at least are reasonably known because there are time, on a lot of permits, there’s a time clock that starts when you submit it. There’s so many days to respond and you can somewhat understand what those risks are and control those, however there are, in many areas, there are other permits and that they get issued that have no time limit, particularly around the fire marshals, and that is a very, that’s not at a state level, federal level. That is a very local level, city, townships, counties, all have individual fire marshals and by and large our experiences, those do not have a time clock on those.

And so it takes a lot of effort, a lot of expertise and a lot of know-how to be able to talk to folks who may or may not be up to speed and up to date on the fire concerns around battery systems and the mitigations that are put in place to alleviate those concerns. And so we’ve had a number of projects that have been delayed due to fire marshal and quite frankly, poor communication, lack of communication, lack of understanding and being able to work through those issues.

The one other thing I would say from an advice perspective, it is around the impacts of tariffs, the impacts of ITCs and what you do qualify for and what you don’t. Almost if you’re going for tax equity and you’re going to sell your credits, then you really have to understand what the third party engineering firm or design firm is going to look at when it comes time to get those tax credits issued. By and large, those are very conservative reviewers, and because they’re looking at a 20- or 30-year tax credit and how tax equity might impact the cost of that project, and so you need to make sure that whoever you’re ultimately going to potentially sell those credits to that you understand what are the guidelines that they’re looking for and not just what your engineering construction company is looking at.

Wes Ashworth (22:33)

Yeah, well put. And thinking about another issue just with digital transformation and really just the significance of how much technology plays a part of these energy storage projects compared to most other energy projects. So the interplay of ones and zeros that you mentioned, we can get more into that, it’s often underappreciated. How is TruGrid leveraging digital innovation to bridge the gap between disparate systems and ensure seamless integration?

Ramanj Pamidi (22:59)

So it’s all about interoperability, right? There are different equipments as part of the BOP. There are different types of BESS. There is a PCSS. There is CT, PT. And this comes in different shapes and forms. When I’m going to say different protocols, different data rates, communication protocols, all this has to come into play, right? And I use the term control philosophy or control narrative. That’s nothing but the blueprint on how the whole system works together. And that’s where Jody talks about zeros and ones. They have to work cohesively together.

Think of an orchestra, where each instrument has to perform flawlessly and harmonize with others to create a cohesive experience. And that’s what we do. Zeros and ones come together and manage, I mean, follow the control narrative, which is nothing but the blueprint of the system has to interact with their grid.

And second, as I said earlier, we have this expertise built under one roof, right? And that’s de-risking the dependency on the resource availability and timing from the OEM vendors. As I said, we have expertise in the control systems, expertise in the balance of plant, the switch gears, and third, in the BESS storage on the PCS, the inverter technology itself.

The third is we have our own warehouse where we test this out and the whole control narrative and de-risk anything which is going to happen at the project level. And these are the three things is a key for bringing the zeros and one together.

Jody Snodgrass (24:23)

And Wes, I’d like to add a little bit onto what Ram said. Ram’s obviously very engaged with the integration system and making all those components talk to each other. But as I think you mentioned in your intro about me, I do believe in digital transformation in the construction industry. I think it’s something that has been lacking for many, many years.

I’m always, there’s one statistic that I kind of always go back to. When you look at manufacturing productivity factors over the last 25 years, the manufacturing industry, no matter what you’re making, whatever your widget might be, has gotten about 30% better. And that’s due to AI. It’s due to digital transformation. It’s due to folks’ ability to find the weak links and get better over time. The construction industry over the last 25 years is our productivity factor has gotten 5% worse. So there’s a 35% gap between manufacturing and construction over the last 25 years. And it’s something that I have worked on here at Trugrid and certainly in other companies in my past.

So during construction, some of the things that we employ are drones. We use AI around our scheduling and how we can improve our productivity factors in the field. We put beacons on our employees’ equipment tools, track them as they move through the field and look at things like earned value and our productivity. Ram spoke briefly about security, but things like remote security and cameras and that type of stuff, Bluetooth technology, to understand where our equipment is and how we receive it and how we make sure it stays there and gets put where it’s supposed to be. We use a lot of certainly the gold standards of software from Oracle and Procore and NetSuite and those types of things to manage our projects.

Above all of this, it’s our people, and our ability to have, be somewhat early adopters. I don’t want to be a pioneer, honestly. I learned a long time ago because pioneers got shot. Be the second guy through or be the third guy through, but don’t be first. But be able to adopt and have people who are open to adopting new technology, new ways of doing things so that we can get better over time at what we do.

Ramanj Pamidi (26:53)

I would like to just add here: end of the day, it doesn’t matter how many millions we invest on this discrete systems, which is in the substation of the BSS. It is a control system. The control narrative has to bring all the zeros and ones and work together, interact, interoperate, and work as per design and integrate with the grid. That’s the key.

Wes Ashworth (27:13)

Yeah, absolutely. I love several things there. Ram, I love the orchestra analogy. Then Jody, just so good in what you just shared there, just the digital transformation and the construction industry as a whole and just take out renewable energy. And then you combine the two of those, you really can start to see the magic of what makes you guys so successful. So I love that.

One thing I always love to address is just some industry misconceptions. Are there any misconceptions about battery energy storage or EPC services that you wish the industry better understood, and feel free to speak on those now?

Jody Snodgrass (27:45)

So I think, you know, I’ll speak specifically to BESS and certainly, I’ve been in renewables for six, seven years, utility industry for a long time, but it is an immature industry. And with an immature industry, you have lots of various technologies that change rapidly. You have the ITCs and tariffs and regulations that are continually changing and mid-project and other things. But I would say that, one thing I love about this team that we’ve assembled at TruGrid is these are industry experts. This is the best team I’ve ever worked with. And I don’t say that lightly because I’ve worked with some great teams around the world. I’ve done projects in 27 countries in every industry you can imagine, both oil and gas and utility and food and beverage and pharmaceuticals. And this is the best team that I’ve ever worked with.

I believe when you start to look at this, I said earlier that I think people underestimate that, people get upset when I say this, but I call this construction-lite. Like it’s barely construction. It’s not difficult construction. The hard part about this is really twofold. It’s an exercise in schedule and logistics management, getting the batteries to show up at the right time, getting the other pieces to show up at the right time so that you don’t double handle them. So you don’t have to cycle batteries before you get to reach COD so that you don’t have to do preservation on things because all of that stuff costs money.

And then the second piece of that is the integration. And that’s what we’ve talked a lot about here is, it’s not just getting it built. Getting it built is quite, I won’t say it’s the easy part, but it’s the easier part of doing these projects. Getting the ones and zeros to line up and these different suppliers who quite frankly sometimes are competitors with each other. So when their commissioning team show up, they don’t necessarily want to work with the other team and the other-other team and the other-other-other team.

And so, being able to herd the cats, so to speak, and leverage Ram’s team and the great work that they do to underpin that is really, from a BESS perspective, is what makes the magic happen.

Wes Ashworth (29:54)

Yeah, and you talked about team. I know you have done a lot just with fostering that culture, fostering a winning team. And I know retention rates are an all time high for the company. The company just really seems like they’re thriving in a really good groove under your leadership. What are some of the core principles that guide your leadership and how do you keep a high performing team aligned and motivated?

Jody Snodgrass (30:30)

Communication, communication, communication. First of all, just to be clear, my goal is to be the dumbest guy in every room. That’s my goal. That is not my role in the organization. And so it’s being able to put the smartest folks that I know in the same room at the same time and get everybody to, we have a mantra here that we kicked off about four months ago, but it’s called “row the boat,” and it’s getting us all aligned so that we’re rowing the boat in the same direction towards the same goal. And so from a communication perspective, that is a continual reminder. And when I say continual, it’s every couple of weeks, “Where’s point B, where are we going? What’s our goal? Do we need to course adjust a little bit? But here’s where we’re going.”

 And the second part of that, that I employ as a, I guess I would say a leadership principle, but is explaining the why. Certainly through my career, there were so many scenarios where I was told the how or the what, how to do this, here’s what to do to do this, but not the why. And many times I didn’t understand the why. And so then it was like, well, this is silly. Why are we doing this? And it’s helping people understand the why because when you understand the why you might not even agree with it, but you understand that there’s a method to the madness that, this is why we’re doing what we’re doing and, I try to employ that, every day this is what we’re going to do and this is why we’re going to do it.

Wes Ashworth (32:05)

And Jody, so you’re digging into this a little bit further. So your leadership really emphasizes transparency, collaborative problem solving. You mentioned communication obviously being huge. How has this approach contributed to TruGrid’s ability to tackle industry challenges that we’ve outlined today? I know that the list is long and there’s challenges, but how has it helped?

Jody Snodgrass (32:23)

I would say it’s not only transparency internally, the communication, the collaboration that our team has, but it’s also that same transparency and same communication externally and with our clients and with our suppliers. When, again, when folks understand the why, it makes it much more palatable and much easier to contract things, negotiate things, design the right system. It’s like, well, here’s a change order. Well, why? Well, here’s why. And I find that when you talk about that upfront, even before you reach FID or notice to proceed, that you’re talking about that upfront. Listen, there’s going to be weather delays. Here’s what a weather delay costs us. And therefore there might be some carry on costs with that.

The flip side of that is, here’s the supplier you’ve selected. You’ve told us you would prefer this supplier. We have another supplier who is, in our opinion, just as competent and provides the same quality and you can get it six months faster or you can get it 8% cheaper or those types of things. We’re also upfront about that with our client and say, “Maybe this is a better scenario for what you’re trying to do.” And when we can understand with our client as an example, what’s more important? Is it speed to market? Is it cost? Is it LCOS? What’s your driver for this project? What are your economics? It helps us design a better facility so that we understand, with given these parameters, this is the best fit for what it is we do.

We do that same thing with our suppliers where we say, “Hey, that’s great. We see your price. You’re not market. You need to be 8% cheaper or that’s awesome, but we’re not going to be able to buy from you because your lead time is six months longer than what our client needs.” And when the industry and our suppliers understand the why, then it makes it much easier to have those conversations.

And again, it’s about transparency and collaborative problem solving because then we can have the sometimes hard discussions of, well, do you want X or Y? And here’s the different outcomes.

Wes Ashworth (34:40)

Yeah, no, it’s so good. And as we get closer to time, I want to hit on a few more things here. So just thinking about the future. So as the market evolves with new tariffs, potentially emerging technologies, increased competition, how is TruGrid positioning itself to stay ahead of the curve?

Jody Snodgrass (34:56)

My job is to always look into the future. My job is to understand where is the industry going? What does this new administration look to when they’re talking about new regulations, new tariffs, new potentially impacting tax credits? And just as important, where do we think interest rates are going to go?

I had a professor a long time ago who tongue-in-cheek joked, but the most powerful force in the universe is compound interest. And being able to understand what the Fed might do next quarter does impact the cost of these projects, being able to be proactive instead of reactive in that landscape, as well as what are the new technologies? Where are we going? What’s the new energy densities of DC blocks? What’s the footprint we’re looking for? If we can double stack batteries and get NFPA to sign off on it, can we cut your footprint by 40%? And what does that look like? And what are the cost savings related to that? And so there are multiple things that we’re always looking, six months, nine months, twelve months out into the future so that we can be proactive to the industry that helps us stay ahead of that curve.

Wes Ashworth (36:05)

Yeah. And I’d love to hear from you both on this one. What’s one piece of advice you’d give to other leaders or companies trying to succeed in the renewable energy sector?

Jody Snodgrass (36:14)

I would say that I think probably my biggest shock, if there was such a thing coming out of the oil and gas, a very mature industry, transmission distribution, again, very mature industry. This is not a mature industry. There are so many moving parts that can change on a dime.

They’re not, you know, typically in those industries, well, “Here’s a change and it’s going to happen in 2029,” well I can prepare for that. Not “Here’s a change and it’s going to happen in 14 days.” It makes things a little more difficult. And so, you know, as I look at the renewable energy sector in particular, don’t underestimate the opportunity for things to change. And so when you do that, that means doing your risk analysis, what are the mitigations to those risks and how can you control it?

One of the things I’m a huge advocate of, no matter what industry you’re in, and certainly we’ve employed at TruGrid, is the stage gate process. And so we employed a stage gate process almost a year ago now to be able to better manage and better control and better deliver projects. And honestly, the entire point of the stage gate process is about risk identification and risk mitigation. For me, Project Management 101 is number one, identify risk. Number two, mitigate risk. Number three, if you can’t mitigate, you escalate. That is project management to me.

Wes Ashworth (37:30)

Yeah, absolutely. And to that point, there’s so much that you can learn from other industries, traditional energy, oil and gas to manufacturing as you shared, to not be closed minded to that, be open to let’s pull in some of the brightest minds from those other industries and learn, okay, how do we learn from their mistakes, learn from what they’ve already accomplished and what they’ve figured out. So yeah, I love that sentiment. Ram, I know you’re ready to jump in, go ahead.

Ramanj Pamidi (37:56)

Yeah, I would say just to add to what Jody just said, is the organization’s ability to adopt any changes in the policy and regulatory requirement at the speed at which we can adopt, and being humble is key for the success too.

Wes Ashworth (38:10)

Yeah. Ram, I have a question for you. So, thinking about the talent that we’ll need in this industry from technical all over, I’ll focus on technical. Folks that are engineers and maybe they’re in school right now, they’re considering a career. From your perspective as a technical guy, why should they come into this industry instead of maybe some other ones that are out there?

Ramanj Pamidi (38:30)

I would say this is, there’s a lot of revolutions happening around communication, technology, And this is, we call about the smart grids. And this is an era where there is need for transformation in the whole renewable industry, including electric grid.

And this is a combination of technology, policy, and the processes which is coming together. So we can use the advanced technology, like, you know, generative AI, and it’s a mix of everything which is going to make it successful. And this is going to stay. It’s not come back. And this is for the sustainability and making a better place to live for our coming generations.

Wes Ashworth (39:07)

Yeah, I think it’s got all the right things. I don’t think there is a better industry for an engineer to walk into right now in terms of the growth and challenges and cutting edge, just sort of things like that. So I agree completely. As leaders, what impact do you hope TruGrid will have on the renewable energy industry? How do you envision the company’s legacy?

Jody Snodgrass (39:25)

You know, I guess the legacy I would like to leave in the industry and leave with society, honestly, is, there’s no single path to where we want to get to. And there is, you know, a play for just about every technology you can imagine. And we talk about energy storage and mean, batteries are certainly the key for the next five, seven, maybe even ten years, but there are certainly other energy storage technologies that are in their very infancy that will also have a space. And I think that the legacy of TruGrid and that I’d like to leave behind is that we are a socially conscious company. We deliver projects safely. People go home better than they came in, every morning for our own teams and then we build a lasting long-term facility and project for our clients that they are happy with 10 years from now.

Wes Ashworth (40:21)

Yeah, love it. Final thoughts, got the last question. So what’s the most important takeaway you’d like our audience, whether they’re industry insiders, developers, curious listeners, or others connected to the industry, what would you like them to gain from this conversation?

Jody Snodgrass (40:35)

Ram, why don’t you go first? And I’ll close.

Ramanj Pamidi (40:36)

Sure. I thought about this, Wes. So first I would say is there’s so much of technology advancements. Invest in the generative AI. There’s a lot of tasks which are very mundane. 40% of the work what we do can be automated, artificial intelligence. Invest in the IoT in terms of deploying this remote equipment, monitoring collections, there’s so much of technology. And the third, wouldn’t compromise on the security and safety. There’s lot of innovation happening, especially in security called the quantum security. We are looking ahead into the quantum security, adapt to it. And second, as I said, the speed at which we are able to adapt to the changes in the regulatory and policy changes. And third is the price changes, right? The battery storage, there’s new technology coming in, the prices going down, as Judy said, the different mix of technologies, so come up with a formula where we can use different storage technologies and put a solution together. And then again, the last thing I would say is anything you do, everything you do, don’t compromise on the security, safety, and reliability.

Wes Ashworth (41:47)

Yeah, love it.

Jody Snodgrass (41:47)

I think Wes, I’d like, really the takeaway from this conversation and thanks for asking the question, is really that this is hard work, but it’s not hard. Our teams, the team that’s been assembled here has done this before in many other industries and in this industry.

And it takes a lot of hard work, but we’re not reinventing the wheel here. There are tried and true practices, processes, workflows, construction techniques that have been used time and time again to deliver these projects. And certainly, we are going to leverage the best of those processes and technologies and things from other industries. The nuance is that we get them built.

That’s great. You got to turn them on and make them work. And there is no industry standard in the ones and zeros between different suppliers to make these things talk to each other. And if  it’s the one kind of hard lesson I learned even before coming to TruGrid being, you know, with some different folks in the renewable industry is around battery energy storage systems is that the ones and zeros don’t match up. It takes a long time to try to make a match up, but we’ve invested a lot of time and effort and energy in the workflow process and the software and the underlines, all of the pieces of the integration, but really in the people that make that happen. Because ultimately it’s about the people that make this happen. And I just couldn’t be prouder of the team that we have.

Wes Ashworth (43:16)

I love that. Always comes back to the people, right? And your focus has been on that really intentionally. And I think sometimes it’s something that’s missed. People have this great technology, and they think they have this best solution, and they don’t focus on the people and the team side of it. And you have a really hard time succeeding and getting far with that. So I love the focus on people and just reiterating that. So with that, that will wrap up this inspiring conversation with Jody and Ram of TruGrid.

Jody and Ram, thank you for sharing your incredible insights and the transformative work you’re doing to drive sustainability forward. To our listeners, as always, thank you for tuning in to another episode of Green Giants: Titans of Renewable Energy. If you found today’s discussion as enlightening as I did, be sure to subscribe, share this episode with your network, leave us a review. It helps us bring you even more stories from leaders shaping our clean energy future. And with that, we’ll see you next time.