Green Giants – Episode 42

Kristina Sweet (01:35)

Well, it is a fairly long story, but the cliff notes may be for today’s call. So, I went to university in Calgary, and I started my career in Calgary, actually for Arthur Anderson, working as an outsourced auditor for Petro Canada. And that’s how I got my start in oil and gas. I did some work there both on the upstream and downstream and then had a bit of a journey through sort of the technical leap. I started working on SAP and from there kind of my journey moved into Europe and I spent many years working in Europe, working on sort of technical risk management, project management related activities in different industries.

And that’s how I landed in Finland and how my journey back to Alberta started, where I worked for Korkia which is a renewable energy investor. And about the time they were making an investment into Alberta is about the time my path started. Actually, my very first day at Korkia was on a flight from Helsinki to Calgary to start my job. So, I have this really blessed position that I get to go home for work as living abroad and I absolutely take that for the privilege that it is, and I love being back in Alberta and sort of tapping into the roots of being on the land but also in energy.

Wes Ashworth (02:28)

Yeah, no kidding, and I guess back to sort of growing up on the land, how do those early experiences shape the way you approach energy investment today? I guess do you see echoes from your past and the work you’re doing now?

Kristina Sweet (02:56)

I mean, I do. think for most Albertans, it’s sort of energy is a part of our history and our culture, right? Like we see the oil and gas wells everywhere. We’re used to the company names and sort of landowners knowing and being very savvy with the business. So, I grew up kind of in that environment, although sort of from a rural perspective, right? So, we were, for a good part of my childhood, growing up on a cattle farm. And I think that we were exposed both in terms of how the land was sort of traditionally used and how we benefited from it and provided sort of sustainment for society, et cetera, but also how it could be tapped into sort of for another revenue stream. And if you were sort of lucky enough to have natural resource on your land or underneath your land, you were kind of winning in the game, if you will, right? So, I think from an early age, you were sort of just used to that kind of equation where land and energy sort of interplayed with each other.

Wes Ashworth (03:44)

I love that. And really, you spent years navigating the complexities of renewable energy investment. What’s one lesson about risk and reward in this industry that has shaped the way maybe you approach deals today?

Kristina Sweet (04:06)

That’s a good question. I think, and maybe it’s not specific just to sort of the energy industry, but I think it’s really important that you’re super authentic and that you have sort of, I don’t want to say cultural feel, but that you have an empathy and awareness of who you’re dealing with in sort of their underlying motives and positions, right? So, I think it’s really important that if, for example, in our particular case, when we’re out dealing with the landowners or trying to sort of secure our position in rural parts of Alberta, that we have kind of an empathy and a starting point that’s more aligned with where their position is or maybe, right?

Not to take for granted motivations or anything, but I think you don’t want to bring sort of a big money, big city view to someone kind of looking at the land through probably a different perspective than you would be right. So, I think absolute being authentic is key to any sort of negotiation. And I think especially in Alberta where first, most landowners are super savvy and they understand, right, what’s happening and second is that historically land farming and energy actually is a deep part of our culture. And so, I think bringing that to the forefront and making sure that you understand that going is really important.

Wes Ashworth (05:18)

Yeah. Is there a story that comes to mind where that empathy, that authenticity really made a big difference, like one that’s memorable that comes to mind?

Kristina Sweet (05:35)

Maybe I tell the story of when I first came to Alberta to do a site visit and actually, it was the first time. So, we have a fairly good chunk of parcels of land, and we were going out for a site visit before we made our final investment decision. We’re talking several quarter, multiple quarter sections of land. So, a big parcel of land. And when we got there, it was a beautiful sunny day and as far as the eye could see was the land that we were considering which is a lot. And I had a very visceral response to seeing, to feeling actually, what it would potentially look like with the solar panels crossing my view rather than, there wasn’t much to see, it was low grade or early on crop days or whatever. But trying to position that in my mind. And I had kind of a strong response because as a child from the farm, I was thinking that’s way different. And one of my colleagues, actually, the developer saw sort of, it wasn’t distress, but it was like the emotional reaction I was having. And he just leaned over, and he touched my shoulder, and he said, it’s okay, we’re farming the sun.

And it had like this, it’s maybe silly in a way, it’s kind of superficial if you look at it at face value, but it really kind of calmed me. And I thought in that instant he’s right, there are different ways to use the land, and one isn’t necessarily better or worse than the other, it’s just how you choose to use the land. And it really reshaped how I look at what we do and also potentially how people view what we do and kind of another layer of empathy and awareness going through. I take that with me all the time because I can appreciate for a lot of folks, especially folks who are new to renewables, they may have that same kind of initial reaction, right? So, it was for me a really powerful moment. And I hope that I can sort of pay that forward in the conversations that I have with people.

Wes Ashworth (07:15)

Yeah, I love it so much. It is such a powerful story. And I think such an authentic one of just that reaction, that visceral reaction, that’s kind of like, oh, wait, but then just the tap on the shoulder, like, it’s OK. You know, we’re farming the sun. I love that analogy so, much. I hope people are going to take that to heart when they hear this and start spreading that around. It’s like we’re farming the sun. It’s a good thing. Back to Korkia, which has grown into one of the largest renewable developers in Alberta in just a few years.

What’s really been the driving force behind that success?

Kristina Sweet (08:12)

Well, I think I would maybe answer that two ways. I think Korkia as a company has a really interesting business model. You know, we’ve been in existence for a long time, but we’ve only been working with renewables solely as a renewable energy investor for about the last four years. And in that time, we’ve gone from our first investment to 14 investments and over 20 gigawatts.

So, it’s a massive sort of global portfolio we’ve amassed in a very short period of time. And I think that the reason we’ve been able to do that is that we’re lean, we have structures and governance, but we’re not deeply sort of bureaucratic, but we’re also a hands-on investor. So, we try and layer our capabilities on top of our local partners.

And maybe just to pause there and share that how we do our businesses is that we partner with local developers. And in this case, we’re working with Universal Kraft Canada Renewables in Alberta, and they provide sort of the development capability. We provide the financing capability, commercial marketing, stakeholder management, those kinds of capabilities and we’ve been quite successful in kind of merging the core skill sets of companies and sort of accelerating our position.

Why Alberta and how we’ve been able to sort of amass that? One, I think we found a good partner to help us enter into the market. The other thing is that it’s no secret that Alberta is sort of a powerhouse. It’s the only deregulated energy market in Canada. And even though at the moment we’re struggling with regulatory changes, etc. one thing that always comes through, whether it’s up or down, energy always comes out on top, right? So, I think we’ve been super bullish in the market, even throughout the reforms that have been happening, we see that there will be a path forward. And so, we’ve kind of been pushing on that on that path, knowing that eventually, know, regulations, policy, political positions, etc. will balance and the market will come out. We know the market will come out up or I think we’re fairly confident it will, right? So that has allowed us to sort of be ultra-ambitious and hopefully help in bringing electricity prices down for consumers and providing more electricity as Alberta grows.

Wes Ashworth (10:15)

Yeah.  And you mentioned something there, the hands-on investment approach, which I want to get into. And I know you focus on the greenfield development as well, too. I guess, why is that important? And what does that look like in practice? I mean, when you say hands-on investment approach, what does that mean? What does it look like in real life?

Kristina Sweet (10:44)

So, I can’t speak for how other companies operate, but for us, what that means is that once we’re comfortable that we found the right jurisdiction and the right partner, then it’s a matter of having sort of a high trust, high effective relationship with that partner so that if they need capabilities, we’re there to kind of lean into providing what they need to be as successful as possible. So, for most people who work in energy development, it’s extremely fast, it’s complex, it’s stressful, it’s very dynamic, it’s volatile. And so having kind of the bandwidth and the resilience to sustain it in the best of worlds is difficult. But when you’re partnered with someone who you have really good trust or a really good relationship with, it allows you to kind of lean into some of those uncomfortable situations or then to put your hand up and be like, “hey, you know, I need help.”

And so, you know, there’s a fine line between being too involved and being too uninvolved. And a lot of that is just kind of learning and working as you go, right? But for us, it we haven’t realized the full value unless we have a relationship that’s not just about governance and making sure milestones are hit, but making sure that we’re adding value and support to ensure that together we’re hitting the milestones, right? So, it’s not so much about putting the pressure on the partner to hit the milestones. It’s like we’re in this to win together. How can we help you best?

Wes Ashworth (12:19)

Absolutely, I love it. I love that approach. Can you walk us through maybe an of how that hands-on approach made the difference between success and failure in a project?

Kristina Sweet (12:29)

Well, maybe it’s not as black and white or success and failure. I think some of the challenges that we’ve been facing in the Alberta market have led to sort of, we’ve really had to make sure that everybody is aligned with how we view the market, how we leverage our partners, where we decide to push the gas pedal, where we want to pull on the brake, et cetera. And so, a practical example would be like, OK, we’re in this position where we’re unsure, for example, during the land reforms, we’re unsure what the playing field is going to look like afterwards. So then sitting down and having really frank conversations like, OK, what happens in scenario A, B or C, right? And not just that we are dictating what the solutions or outcomes could be based on how the cards land on the table, but that we have like this active dialogue. You know, in some cases, it could be not in our particular example, but it would be like, okay, we’re going to stop financing if this is the scenario or this is the scenario, right? And I think that’s what we try to avoid is getting into like zero sum games or binary outcomes. As soon as we’re into binary outcomes, we have a 50 % chance of winning and a 50 % chance of losing, right? So, avoiding those binary positions is sort of in practice is how I hope our interaction with, not just our partners, but our wider stakeholder network as well, I think would be maybe a fair way to sum it up.

Wes Ashworth (13:59)

Great perspective. And you hit on this a little bit. So, as we know, Alberta’s energy market has seen major regulatory changes recently. I guess what has been the biggest challenge? What’s your take on where things stand now?

Kristina Sweet (14:10)

Yeah, it’s been an interesting go I think as a general comment, I would say that energy is such an important part of Alberta’s revenue streams and that I think that there in general is room for more than just traditional energy, right? This isn’t a zero-sum game. And I think one of the challenges has been, at least for me, as I’ve been viewing the market, is that a lot of the conversation has been very zero sum, right? It’s an either-or equation. And I think if we just put everything out, it’s like we need both in order to meet both our energy needs and our energy goals, but also to lower prices for consumers. So, I think that one of the challenges has been that from all stakeholders, the messaging hasn’t been sort of ideal in terms of getting to the best results. So just as a general caveat, I think that the biggest challenge has been the extended period of time that the uncertainty has been.

I think, for us and probably for many developers, when you started in this, there was a fairly reasonable expectation about how long a development cycle would take for wind or solar and what the costs would be. Even though not perfect, it was a fairly transparent environment. The amount of change, I mean, the land reforms have changed. Almost every single component of the energy market itself has changed or will change.

And we probably won’t see the real sort of working product of all of those changes for a good amount of time to come, right? So, we’re now just starting to get visibility on what those components are, which should, in theory, stabilize the market somewhat, right? The frames will at least be available, and we’ll know what the boundaries are that we can play in. But those details can really make a big difference both to the overall project success, but to the economics of the project as well. So, I think that the biggest challenge has been the time and going forward, that time impact will continue to play.

Underneath that, the challenge has been in terms of with the entire pricing market reforms, it becomes very difficult to sort of secure contracts against your project, which means it’s difficult to get it financed so you can build it. The longer it takes to build it the longer it takes for us to get reduced prices to consumers and sort of it has these kinds of knock-on effects. But I think and I hope that we’re kind of at least getting to kind of a critical mass in terms of the amount of information we have and how we can start you know successfully moving the projects forwards to reach those next hurdles, right?

Wes Ashworth (16:57)

Yeah, absolutely. I’ll ask this question. So, if you could sit down today, what’s the one change you’d push for that would unlock the most potential for renewable investment?

Kristina Sweet (17:09)

Yeah, that’s a really good question. And actually, we were asking that same question recently with one of our advisors. I think the biggest change would be that we need to unlock all of the mechanisms around the pricing, because that’s the key to unlocking the PPA or the Power Purchase Agreement Market, which is the final investment hurdle to get those projects constructed, right? So that component has been sort of on ice, which makes the market be liquid and nothing’s really moving around that. I think, even though I hope I’m generally an optimistic person, I’m a little bit worried that kind of all of these impacts will significantly postpone the construction of new facilities, which will mean that at the end of the day, will be sort of everyday Albertans that are potentially suffering at the consequence for the short term. Long term, well probably medium to long term, I think that there’ll be overall, you know, positives for the energy market. But I think we’re not out of the woods yet, but we’re getting closer to being there.

Wes Ashworth (18:01)

Yeah. And as you just mentioned, you know, some of the biggest issue really is the uncertainty, the delays. I guess how do you manage risk in an environment where uncertainty itself is the biggest obstacle?

Kristina Sweet (18:25)

Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s kind of a bit of a million-dollar question, right? Because for us, we don’t have any public funding. So we fund our projects with private capital. And so, the uncertainty has a direct impact, you know, not necessarily negatively, but it creates maybe time extension or uncomfortability in that. So I think it’s really important that, or at least what I have tried to do is to build out like a really deep network of people that you trust and people that you admire and that you can have like really frank and transparent conversations with, right? Because, especially for someone like me or for my company, the company I work for, Korkia, we’re not boots on the ground on a regular basis, right? We’re looking in from abroad. I’m from there, so maybe I have a bit more insight, but it’s that daily heartbeat which gives you the best indicator of where things are going.

I spend a very big amount of my time in meetings and phone calls, you know, reaching out to anybody kind of in the immediate ecosystem, but as broad, you know, into traditional energy, into, you know, other companies doing in foreign companies doing investments in Alberta, just trying to pull all the information in to have as wide a lens as possible. I think that’s the only outside of sort of countermeasures to mitigate against the capital exposure that we may or may not face. That’s the only thing we can do to kind of mitigate our risk is to be as knowledgeable as possible.

Wes Ashworth (19:57)

Yeah, I agree. I think you hit on it perfectly there. And I think that’s really what it comes down to. And it’s often that I see these articles or these researchers, this other stuff come out and it’s interesting when you talk to people in the industry and your network and across different sectors and things like that within that. Sometimes you get a little bit different story and you’re kind of going like, yeah, okay, I see where they came to that conclusion. But in reality, as I’m talking with these different leaders in these different parts of the world and companies, you’re getting a little different picture and also leveraging that relationship as you’ve hit on many times, which is really important. And I think in periods of uncertainty, like that, it really is worth its weight in gold and two points kind of like, that’s the million-dollar question. And I think you’ve got the right answer there. So, going back to something else you hit on with PPAs or power purchase agreements, they have become increasingly difficult to secure I guess how does that affect financing and ability to bring projects to market?

Kristina Sweet (20:52)

Yeah, well, it’s a difficult one to answer because in the previous world or previous sort of pre reform environment, you might be able to, if you were aiming for 50, 60 percent contracted of your total number of production. You would most likely be able to secure depending on the size of the project and other conditions. But you would most likely be able to go and secure project financing for construction around that. And as the uncertainties in the market has grown, the requirement, the amount of contracted, percentage of contracted has also grown. And so, we’re being asked to have really high levels, 80, 90, 100 % contracted in a market that’s illiquid right? So, I think one of the things that we’ve seen in other jurisdictions, maybe I also add here that one of the blessings of being active in nine jurisdictions is that what we’re seeing in Alberta, we’ve seen in almost all other markets. I think one of the interesting nuances in Alberta is that it’s been rare to see all of the reforms stacked at one time, right? Usually, they happen in buckets or in succession, but that aside, so we have seen this happen in other markets, but we’ve also seen sort of the lenders adapt with those reforms, right? And that has happened somewhat in Alberta. And I think right now everybody is sort of still in very conservative position. And I think maybe we’ll start to see some of that unlock as well, I hope, at least, as the reforms get closer to certainty. So, I think, you know, the ability to get those projects constructed, I think it was in Business Renewables Canada recent white paper that were like a five-year high of construction-ready assets and a five-year low of construction. I think that it paints a picture, right? And I think that we need to make sure that we’re tapping into the potential of what we’re able to bring to the market.

And I think here, there’s a bit of competition, right? Everybody wants to get their assets contracted, their assets constructed as well. But in a market, that’s currently in the position of Alberta, it’s really important that any asset, any developer has those wins, because it sets the tone and the momentum for others to be reaching that as well. So, while there is a certain amount of sort of competition and making sure that your own interests are looked after, it’s really important that as an industry collective, we’re kind of rooting for everybody’s successes because it’s one of the ways that we’re going to kind of push beyond some of the uncomfortable time.

Wes Ashworth (23:35)

Yeah, that’s good. And a major misconception is that Alberta’s renewable boom is driven by government support. In reality, it’s private capital. So, you break that down for us a bit?

Kristina Sweet (23:47)

I think in the early days of renewables, and I have no specific evidence of this, but just my understanding, is that in early days there were some government programs, and there still are some government programs around innovation and clean energy, etc., but very few government programs that are supporting the development and construction of renewable assets in Alberta. They are predominantly being funded by private companies or public companies, but with private capital. So, I think when we’re talking about overall impact to Alberta, there has been sort of a decrease or a slowdown in the amount of capital coming to Alberta to invest in Alberta. So, if you if you’re putting on the hat of an investor, when you’re looking at where you want to deploy your capital, you’re looking at how fast is it going to go? What are the returns the market? Certainty, risks, etc.

And if you’re looking at a market, even a great one like Alberta, that’s under a deep amount of uncertainty with lack of clarity in terms of when that will be coming out compared to another jurisdiction, which has less uncertainty and more certainty and timeline, you’re going to probably deploy your capital towards the other market, right? So, from Alberta’s perspective, I think that, you know, there has probably been some missed opportunity for foreign direct investment or even local investment because of the uncertainty of the reforms and of course that leads to you know all investment in Alberta is tax there’s tax revenues there there’s job creation there’s you know build out through the supply chains and all of those good things that come when people are investing capital so I think you know there’s been this sort of, while the government funding isn’t there, there’s been, as an observation, not fact based, I’ve never done the research, but that there’s probably been a slow or missed opportunities from the private capital.

So, what we have seen, and let’s see how this plays out because we’ve had an election down south and we’ll likely have a federal election up here soon, is that the investment tax credit, which is sort of comparable to the Act that was very successful in the US, if that holds that is not government funding, but that is a lever that the government uses to help ensure that Canada is moving towards a greener, cleaner future. And that is a reasonable consideration towards your private capital.

But again, it’s government, it’s not grant money, it’s not free money. You have to spend that money in order to sort of qualify for the tax credit that comes at the end. And you have to prove labor wages and number of jobs. And it’s a very heavy process in order to qualify for that. So, it’s not in any way free money. But I think overall, I would say that the majority of the renewable energy projects that are happening in Alberta are funded through private capital.

Wes Ashworth (26:42)

And thinking about that private capital and the investment side of that, what are the most important factors you consider before investing in a renewable energy project?

Kristina Sweet (26:53)

That’s also a very good question. For us, the first consideration is the market, right? So, we do a deep dive on the market. We understand how business friendly it is, how complex it is, what’s the maturity of the renewable energy itself, the sophistication of the energy industry, what’s the development cycle, kind of the normal market analysis. And then in parallel, finding the right partner, but the consideration is really how do all of those elements combine in order for us to have a bit of visibility going forward right and then how does how does all of that package compare with another jurisdiction?

So, we have the blessing, as I said, that we’re in nine different jurisdictions. We’ve got 14 development companies, and we’ve had long term assets as well. So, we’ve got a bit of experience in how this is like how our machine churns. And so we kind of layer all of those decision points together to get us to, you know, a final decision point.

Wes Ashworth (27:55)

Is there a particular red flag maybe that has stopped you from moving forward with a project? I guess when even everything else looked promising.

Kristina Sweet (28:03)

There’s nothing specific in Alberta. So, we had made our investments in Alberta, the majority, not all, with our development partner before the reform started. We’ve made investments after the reforms were announced. But from a project perspective, I mean, it’s really important that we look in all of our jurisdictions as a responsible investor and responsible developer, right?

We always look; we’re a pure play renewable energy investor. So, we only invest in renewable energy, which sort of already sets us as like having a quite high sustainability view or lens on those elements. But we also then sort of analyze the projects from a sustainability perspective as well. So, one red flag would be if we’re going into land that’s like ultra-high value from an agricultural production perspective, or if it has any sort of historical cultural significance, even if it would be, for whatever reason, available to develop on that land, it would probably trigger a sustainable red flag, right? Less project specific, but maybe more market specific, we also look at things in terms of like human rights trafficking and these normal sort of lenses with which you have an accountability to your investors, you have an accountability in our case also to our management and our staff that we have certain responsibilities when it comes to sustainment.

So, we have the of the commercial red flags that we look at. Is there any reason why we wouldn’t be able to return the dividends from a particular jurisdiction? That might be a red flag. Might be a red flag if we’re moving into country that’s been gray listed for financial abuses or whatever. the project ones are a little bit more nuanced because it might be that, you know, we’re moving into an area where we know the municipality is really anti-renewable or the land is somehow sensitive for whatever reason. So we do that – evaluation, absolutely. But in Alberta, we’ve been very blessed that all of our projects are on class three and class four lands. And it’s been a strategy of ours to look at land that could maybe be better served in the short term, using it for something else. And so, we haven’t had kind of that deep red flag. Nothing has flagged anyway, red flagged us yet for our projects in Alberta.

Wes Ashworth (30:25)

Yeah. That makes sense and get insights to just send some of those potential red flags even outside of there. For developers who are listening, who are seeking investment, from your perspective, what do they often misunderstand about the funding process and what should they be doing to make themselves more attractive to investors?

Kristina Sweet (30:43)

Yeah, that’s a good one. I think one of the things to be mindful of, and I’m saying this very carefully because we have a lot of governance and requirements in place because we’re a financially regulated company and we have a deep obligation to our investors. I think every investor is slightly different, but in our case, there’s a certain amount of governance, structure, reporting that comes with that money. And that’s its own skill set, right? So even in a high trust environment, you still need to have the time, the capability, the willingness to produce reports because they’re going kind of throughout the backwards value chain of where the money originated from, right?

That’s one of the things I would suggest is that this isn’t like, and I don’t think anyone thinks it’s writing a check and disappear and wait for you to hit a milestone. That’s not the case. But most financial organizations have a very strong and deep obligations to wherever their money is coming from, right? And that comes with a lot of transparency, consistency, reporting, et cetera. Doesn’t have to be crazy, but it’s there, right? And so, I think it’s important that relationships are built upfront, knowing, okay, this is what we’re going to require. This is what we need from you. This is what you need to provide us. This is your core skill set that, you know, so it’s a bit like mapping out your RACI or your RASCI or however, whatever acronym you want to use.

So, the first would be that like depending on what you need and the deal structure offered, there will be requirements that you will need to sort of comply with and be transparent with. The second thing I would say is that, at least in our particular case, it’s really important that the skills that bring the most value are delivered by the person that has the best capability to deliver them, right? So, in our case, we rely heavily on our developer to know what development is, because we’re not developers on boots on the ground. And hopefully they rely on us in terms of like governance, reporting, commercial aspects, et cetera. So, in terms of what developers should look for, one, would say look for partners that you’re willing, think about the worst-case scenario in terms of like highest stress and would you want to be with that particular person in that environment because you will get there. You will absolutely be in the mud, right? And so, you want to be in environment where yes, the money is important, but you need to be in environment I think both parties do with which you can survive all types of development, right? So, money is important, and I know it’s not always easily available, right? But if you’ve got a good portfolio, you’ve got great skills, then I think what I would recommend is that you also look for sort of a cultural fit with what your expectation is and what your skill sets are, because it’s a hard game development. It’s not an easy business to be in.

Wes Ashworth (33:51)

Yeah, without a doubt. And I thought that was really interesting and it makes so much sense, but maybe it’s overlooked a lot that we hit on this in a previous conversation, just the importance of that, like chemistry and fit with from the investor and developer, all the people involved in the entire thing. Like you need to have that relationship, that trust, the transparency, all those kinds of things that, we think of and we’re like, yeah, that’s obvious. but maybe it does get missed sometimes when money comes into play where it becomes very black and white and about these spreadsheets and things like that and it doesn’t line up. But so much of you guys are also looking for the chemistry fit and who the person is and do trust them? Do you believe where they’re headed? Do you believe where they’re going? And all those components I think are really interesting and a great point to make.

Something we touched on throughout this conversation so far is just you’ve got this deep connection to land use and agriculture. How do you balance that, landowners’ concerns with the need for large scale renewable development?

Kristina Sweet (34:47)

Yeah, think so I have maybe my own perspective on this, and I think my personal opinion is, that most landowners or farmers that I have interacted with are deeply intelligent, incredibly innovative, and they know their land better than anybody else. So, I think there is more than enough land to go around for kind of multiple purposes, right? Like, I think we’re talking about, I’m not gonna give the stat, but it’s such a, like a microscopic, like 1 % of all of Alberta would be needed for our energy use. It’s something like really small in the grand scheme of things. But I think it’s really important, one, that you’re working with folks who have a clear idea of what they want to use their land for and why they want to do it.

I think you’re asking for trouble if you’re going in without everybody being absolutely clear-eyed in terms of what you’re trying to achieve, right? An example is that one of the landowners that we’re working with has made a decision. They’re like lifelong, heart-filled farmers, and they want to provide that for the next generation of their family. And in order for them to be farmers without day jobs, they need volume, which is normal, right? They had made the conscious choice that for a period of time, the life cycle of an asset, they would lease out their land as a way to generate revenue. And at the end of that, they would then have enough financial bandwidth to acquire enough land that they could then farm full time for the next generation.

And I think that this is one thing that we need to consider when we’re talking about land use and policies and regulations etc. is that the people who own and work the land, they know. They know how hard it is to make a life doing that. They know how their land is best used. They know their limits. They know, like, I think it’s crazy for us to go in and say, “this is how you should use your land, or this is how you should not use your land,” right? I think we need to be responsible and there needs to be some policies around ensuring that, you know, everybody’s interests are taken into account. But I think I have yet to meet a farmer or a landowner who isn’t way smarter than me, who knows way better than me, you know, and then it’s a matter of finding like terms and conditions that work for everybody, right? So, you know, that’s not always going to be the case, but that’s the ideal case is that you’re working with a partner who clearly has a motivation that is well understood, whatever that motivation might be, and that they see the bigger picture with you, and you see their bigger picture as well, right?

Wes Ashworth (37:23)

Yeah, I love that a lot. That’s such a great point to make and just I think around both sides of it. One, think how savvy these landowners are that often sometimes gets overlooked or it’s like no one talked to them or no one got their opinion, which they probably know the best, right? The other side of that, I think, which is so powerful, and I’ve heard so many of those stories. It’s like the farm sort of passed down generation to generation. Sometimes this

really does empower them and help them be able to do that where otherwise they wouldn’t be able to. And that’s such a, I don’t know, for me, like a cool, powerful thing to be a part of and see that happen and what it means to those individuals. But it’s also making a positive difference in the world and help them push things forward. So, I love hearing those stories. As we get closer to time, I want to fully encapsulate this.

So, something we’ve touched on throughout is just there is a lot of uncertainties in the renewables market political shifts, tariffs, supply chain disruptions, you name it, right? Nothing new, I think we’re used to this up and down and challenges you mentioned this earlier, but what gives you confidence that the transition is still moving forward, and it can’t be stopped?

Kristina Sweet (38:30)

I think what gives me sort of comfort is that we have all lived through oil and gas boom and bust multiple times in our lives, right? Like this is like a very cyclical thing. And from my perspective, this is another version. This is another version of what happens in Alberta when you’re very energy focused. So, I think that’s sort of the baseline, I think. Regardless of all of the challenges that have been going on, Alberta has a brand and an enviable position of being a resource, natural resource heavy and they can deploy those capabilities, right? It’s not just a Canadian thing, but I mean, globally we punch above our weight energy wise. So, I think the short-term challenges balancing kind of the old with the new and making sure that the policies, the companies to a certain extent, but that like all of those parts can come out the other side and I suspect they will, right? We don’t have enough traditional capability, oil and gas capability, to fully energize what Alberta needs going forward, right? So, there has to be other solutions. So, I think it’s just a matter of kind of, you know, getting through the growing pains of what the new Alberta energy landscape looks like.

And I have full faith. Why would we ever want to lose our position as a global market leader with energy? When we can be that with our traditional oil and gas and when we layer on what renewables brings, mean, it just kind of elevates that position. maybe I’m a little bit optimistic and naive, but keep in mind, as you earlier mentioned, I’ve got generations of oil and gas who have also lived through kind of all these booms and busts as well. They’re like, yeah, yeah, it’s going to be fine. You’re going to be fine. Indeed.

Wes Ashworth (40:21)

Sure. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it’d be fine. From your perspective, what’s the biggest investment opportunity in renewables over the next five to 10 years moving forward?

Kristina Sweet (40:34)

Yeah, well I think at least in the short term, storage is going to be the play, right? We need to find a way to kind of balance out the old with the new and give Alberta the most capabilities so that the price has become more levelized for everybody. So, I think in the short term, you’ll see a boom with that, and we’ll see what other technologies come, which are coming fast, right? And we’re now seeing, for example, that solar is cheaper than natural gas. So, I think that maybe this is naive, but I think we’ll also see sort of an innovation happening in traditional energy as well, because they’re, I think it’s fair to say that at least for the next generation, we’re still going to have traditional energy, right? It’s going to be a while before that phases out, So I think that we have at least energy storage. We’ll probably see some innovations in wind and solar technologies. Of course, we’ve got hydrogen coming up and Alberta is well placed for that as well. So, I think if Alberta was really bullish and played their cards right, I mean, they could tap into kind of an enormous amount of energy potential, both for its own domestic use, but also for, you know, export. So, let’s see.

Wes Ashworth (41:46)

Yeah, I love it. So final closing question. So Kristina, you’ve seen firsthand the challenges, risks and opportunities in renewable energy investment. If you could leave one message for the next generation of energy leaders, whether they’re investors, developers, policymakers, what would it be?

Kristina (42:01)

That’s a good and big question. What would it be?

I think it’s probably mostly that this isn’t a zero-sum game. I mean, I keep saying this over and over again, but there is room for everybody and if you have the right idea, the right location, the right partner, the financing, which is already a lot of things. But if you’ve been able to package what it is that you’re trying to do, I mean, we’re doing good things here. Like I know that not everybody views it in the same way, but it’s clean energy and we’re helping to kind of move sort of in the green transition forward. I think if you’re approaching things with like, how can we all win, right? I think that that’s so critical and so undervalued in this environment with which we’re juggling all kinds of dimensions of risk and concern. And if we had this more balanced approach to like, how can we all win or how do we all share equally the loss, et cetera, like more of a collaborative approach, I think it would take everybody much further. I know that’s a bit optimistic and sort of over the, not over the top, but kind of a, it’s maybe too much to ask for in some senses, but I think that it’s really important to me, as much as possible, everyone wins, even if not at the same time, but on average, that balances out to a win-win for all the parties.

Wes Ashworth (43:23)

No, I agree. And I love that sentiment. I mean, whether it’s optimistic or not, I think that’s the right thought and we need to head in that direction. It’s kind of an and, and not an or, and like, hey, if we can all win, great, you know, and still accomplish the goals and what we’re trying to do. Great. You know, I think that’s best-case scenario. So why not push for that? Why not seek that? Why not think that way? So, no, I think it’s great. So, with that, we’ll wrap up another insightful conversation on green giants, titans of renewable energy.

Kristina, it really has been a pleasure hearing your journey from Alberta’s energy legacy to leading Korkia’s renewable investments, your insights into navigating regulatory uncertainty, unlocking private capital, and balancing land use with innovation have been invaluable. To our listeners, as always, if you found today’s discussion valuable, be sure to subscribe, share it with your network, and stay tuned for more conversations with the leaders shaping the future of clean energy. And with that, we’ll see you soon.